Mental Health Awareness Week: When Staying Quiet Hurts

Special Guest: Shariff Boolaky, Menshare Listening Group & BRING YOUR SH*T host.  Plus Roundtable Featuring: Maureen Jones, Micaela Leal, Abigail Chapman-Miller, James Tidy & Iqbal Khan. Host: Clive Hilton. 

If your mental health has felt heavier in the last few years, you are not alone and you are not “too sensitive”. We sit down as the Sussex & Surrey Soapbox roundtable to talk about what anxiety, burnout, loneliness and depression look like on the ground across Sussex, Surrey and the wider UK, and why so many people feel isolated even with constant digital connection. 

Shariff from Menshare Listening Group shares what he hears week after week in facilitated listening circles: the hidden impact of divorce, parental alienation, custody battles, addiction, overthinking and the quiet slide into emotional shutdown. We also talk directly about men’s mental health and suicide prevention, including what helps when someone looks like they might be at serious risk, and why simply crossing the threshold into a supportive room can be a turning point. 

Psychotherapist Maureen Jones breaks down early warning signs you can actually spot, from sleep issues and feeling flat to irritability and repeated “escape” habits. We explore when counselling can help, when speaking to your GP matters, and why medication can sometimes be the breathing space people need to start recovery. Abigail shares lived experience of CPTSD and the complicated role of diagnosis culture, plus what changed when therapy finally became the right fit at the right time. We finish with practical coping tools that work for us: gratitude, nature, routine, discipline, creativity, faith, and reaching out before things spiral. 

If any of this hits home, share the episode with someone who might need it, subscribe for more community conversations, and leave a review to help others find Sussex & Surrey Soapbox.

Please click on 'Send a text' above & join our Facebook group to share your perspective and suggestions for future topics - Thank you for your interest! Clive.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Mental Health

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Sussex and Surrey Soapbox. Real viewpoints, real opinions, and a balanced conversation on the community issues that matter.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Welcome along. It's the Sussex and Surrey Soapbox, and this is the second time we are getting into mental health because the conversation feels more important than ever and ranks really high as the issues that you want us to lean into and talk about as the round table. Across Sussex and Surrey and wider UK, anxiety, burnout, loneliness, depression, and emotional exhaustion are all becoming everyday life for ordinary people. Whether that's young people, whether it's people around the table here, parents, workers, carers, you name it, everyone suffered to some degree with mental health. We're more digitally connected than ever. Yet many people feel isolated. We've picked this up in other episodes as well. Overwhelmed and stretched, just trying to keep up. NHS demand is rising. Young people are struggling in growing numbers. And many adults admit they're surviving rather than thriving. So we thought we'd take time. It sounds doom and gloom, but um, we thought we'd take some time to just go through mental health and then come up with some positive suggestions about what we can do for ourselves and each other. So we got a special guest, Menture Listening Group, here. Let's go around and introduce ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Hi, yeah, I'm Sharif. I'm from Menture Listening Group. I'm a facilitator and leader who runs the circles on a Monday night in Crawley. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_08 1:33

Hello, I'm Michaela. I work as assistant manager in High Street, and I just recently moved to Crawley.

SPEAKER_06 1:39

Hi, my name is Icbar Khan, founder of Testers Kitchen.

SPEAKER_09 1:41

I'm Maureen Jones, I'm a psychotherapist and live near Ryegate.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

I'm Abigail Chapman Miller, a Labour councillor and vice chair of Oxford Parish Council.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

So, um, hands up, who has uh personally noticed mental health issues at some point, say in the last five years? Hands up. That's everyone apart from Michaela. Have you been have you been playing sailing? You've been okay of you last five years, no mental health.

SPEAKER_07 2:12

Maybe it's just natural.

Men’s Mental Health And Common Struggles

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Well, I mean, statistics, statistics would say, and we covered this in the last episode as well when we got into mental health. One in four adults will experience a mental health problem this year. One in five young people now have a probable mental health disorder. Apparently. So there are lots of people that are affected by this. Sharif, tell us about some of the work, mention listening group. What what are some of the themes? Because as you lead these circles, there must be common themes.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

It's often depression, anxiety, loneliness, uh parental alien, divorce, addiction. There's a number of the things. If guys come and they look like they might be considering unaliving themselves, then we obviously we'll keep an eye, take them to the hospital, make sure they get seen too, etc. stuff like that. So we're very much about preventing that kind of space as well, where where men are are feeling so vulnerable, so um detached that they they want to take their own life. And that's something that we're very much that's why men show was set up in uh five years ago, because obviously two local suicides.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

And this is this is what triggered Sean Orr to set up Men Show listening group because of his personal experience. And when we talk about suicide, uh 75% of those that take that avenue are men. That's correct. It it definitely affects men uh more than women. Um what what do we notice? And and Maureen, in the work that you do, how how do you notice that someone might not be okay?

SPEAKER_09 3:52

Uh yeah, I mean, I would say to people if they're feeling very flat all the time, if they're having sleep issues, um they're, you know, continually wanting to smoke, drink, uh, drug, take, whatever, um, if they're doing that on a regular repeat pattern just to sort of escape and forget. Um, if you're feeling really uh a lot of the time you feel very uh irritable, snappy, very intolerant of uh everyone around you and everything, feeling very disengaged. You know, you'd be sitting in a party of people and you just feel like you're just on the edge of it, you're not you're not really partaking in it properly in conversation and things. All these little signs, um and they but they can but they build up very sl uh slowly often, um so that's not all at once, it's just little things that build up and build up. Um and then it's just that that feeling of just not being able to see the point in anything. I think when you get to that point that you just can't see any joy, can't see any point, can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, just wondering what the hell's why the hell am I here? What's the wall for?

SPEAKER_04 4:59

And there's a difference, isn't there, between depression and where someone feels that there isn't a future for them. Um and with the addictions you mentioned, something around moderating. So when you feel slightly out of control and the addiction is driving you, um and notice it, and it's difficult, I think, when you yourself, as you say it gradually creeps up on you. It's very difficult for someone to notice it themselves. It's usually people around them that was start to say, Are you okay? and everything.

SPEAKER_09 5:28

Yeah, and it can be sort of silly things, you know. I have myself, I mean I'm a therapist, but I'm not immune to mental issues myself. I had a I had a bad year, I I lost two siblings and I had a lot going on in a small space of time. And I felt I've just felt this flatness for a long time. And I just was eating chocolate like there was no tomorrow. And and one of my husbands said to me, Why why are you you're always in the fridge eating chocolate. Every time you go to that fridge, you're eating more chocolate. What's the matter with you? And um and I knew it was getting out of c control. Um, and that might seem like a silly thing, you know, it's not drugs, it's not alcohol, but I I recognised, I thought, yeah, this is just it's a kind of form of comfort that I'm doing here. And you know, if a client came and told me this, I'd be you know, I'd see it for what it was. And it kind of pulled me up with bootstraps a bit, and I thought, uh, yeah, I am a bit depressed. And um so it's noticing these sort of things, and uh yeah, and it you know, it might not be that bad things have happened around you, you know. But I mean it's it's natural, it was natural for me to feel down, you know, as I said, lost two siblings in a small space of time and things had been difficult. But you know, it people get can get depressed and they don't know why they're depressed, and then they'll think to themselves, I've got nothing to be depressed about, or you know, come on, snap out of this. Put my socks up. I've got a great life, I've got you know, I've got lovely children, a husband that loves me, a nice home. Oh, that I you know, I've I've got to stop this. This is just and they feel a bit almost self-indulgent, you know. And then 10 minutes later beating themselves up, but it's um it it we can't help it. When when that black cloud descends, we can't help it. And there's so many things.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

And sometimes there's something around sitting with that um and letting it process and not trying to get it, it's just sitting and understanding why it's there. For you, what what was the telling did did something happen or you just gradually moved out of that phase?

Grief, Sleep And When Medication Helps

SPEAKER_09 7:23

Uh well I started talking about it to people, obviously. Um, and I I kind of recognised that uh yeah, I needed to get out more, I needed to spend more time with friends, I needed to, you know, little do a bit more self-care. Um and you know, gradually it lifted. But as I say, that was a sort of I was just having a natural reaction to grief and whatever. So it kind of it it dissipated in time. But some people who get very clinically depressed and and nothing will shift it, and they really do need to go to a doctor. Um I mean, although I'm a therapist, I I I would say you know there's a time and a place for medication. People do often need medication, even to just to enable them sort of to to get to a point where they can then go for some counselling because um sometimes you could they can be so low that it's very difficult to counsel someone when they're really in a bad state, you know, because they just don't want to talk, they don't want to open up.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

Um so they need to get and the medicine can help, it can be like a respite to help to help get the the the support that you need.

SPEAKER_09 8:25

And I I did get some medication myself, not for depression, but I I was sleeping really badly, and that was making me feel ten times worse. Really, I'd be awake for hours in the night. So I did go to the doctor and she I did for a not for it didn't take them for long, but I took some tablets that helped me sleep at night. And um I think that really helped because I suddenly felt a bit brighter in myself, and um so yeah, there's a time and a place for that. So don't be afraid to go to your doctor and don't be afraid to try and seek out some counselling. I know it's it's not always easy, and and you know, in HS you have to wait and and then you get limited counselling offered to you, but it anything's better than nothing, and I and I think people are um needing it more and more because we're all dealing with this very uncertain world at the moment and there's so many pressures on people.

How Menshare Listening Group Works In Practice

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Um and uh yes, so and and and I think the work, Sharif, you do in the community, uh the men share listening group circles across uh East Grinstead, Crawley, Horsham. Yeah, Haywards Heath of the Haywards Heath now as well. Um tell us about some of the services, not just the listening circles. And I know that might be daunting if you're listening at home and you're thinking, look, you know, I wouldn't mind some support, but the idea of going to a listening circle, it's not for me. Lots of people have been in that situation, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Well, yeah, I mean I mean we've been pretty successful. I'll give you like some of our numbers. Like our weekly average is like 61 men come. We have six work circles across four towns. Average circle one night might be from twelve to twenty people, and and men are referred from 25 different different sources. Once they come in through the front door, they'll find that it's quite a it's quite a space where yes, they're daunted by it at first, but once they find they're surrounded by a group of men that are actually just the same as them, and actually we've all share the same chemical same themes in terms of issues, but they just manifest differently in each other's lives, and we're just from our own broader experiences of providing solutions or forms of guidance that allow them to then take themselves away and try and implement that in their life, and it's basically around empowering the men and trying to empower the men to um to take control of their situation, and there's no silver bullet, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:41

No one's got the fix or the answer. Sometimes just crossing that threshold, sitting in the circle. I've been to one of them and it's incredible. You literally sit there, you don't have to share, you can just listen. Even listening to people's stories can help shift.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah, this is it. And they just like nobody's f uh compelled to check in. They can just sit there and they can listen and can see if it's them or it's not for them. But what they all find is that there's a bigger community. So not only do we have like the circles, it's like you know, we have nature walks, and sometimes we'll just like help the guys do fundraising events and stuff like that. So because if you look at like some of the stats around like you know, isolation and loneliness, 28%. A lot of men come because they haven't got a support network. So they find that men share is a support network of men going through the same kind of things, the same challenges, the same kind of mental issues, the same kind of addictions. And so if there's a a correlation between each other, there's a bond that builds up. And because they're all putting in the work together, there's a sense of growth together as well. And you obviously spoke about grief earlier, like there's a there's a journey, everybody's on a particular journey, and it's just not everybody's gonna get to that point at that time of somebody else.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

So it's not a race, and and and life life unfolds. Um, mentor listening group have also done some really good collaborations with local schools as well, with younger men, because I just noticed one of the stats here over 600,000 children across the UK are still waiting for mental health support. Um, so there are a lot of youngsters.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah, and again, it's the pressures are growing up uh in today's society, right? Social media, peer pressure, friends, what they're seeing, the quick dopamine fix. Um, all of these kind of things are just playing a massive part in in the breakdown of their ability to deal with life, manage themselves, expectations, disappointments, all of those kind of things, and then suddenly what they find is that they then spiral into something or some form of addiction just uh to have a quick fix or or mask something a lot more deep of it sitting within them.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

So mention listening groups been been an avenue for you to get involved and and and find a new kind of path that you never exit thought would exist.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

It's taken it's taken away a lot of the pain that I went through after divorce and it's allowed me to chat. What is basically my motivation is that I don't want anybody to go through what I went through. That's what pushes me. But what it's done, it's also given me a a new career path. I want to be a counselling therapist. So I've done my level two and I've done my level three, and I just want to now sit there and actually counsel people, do stuff in the community as a practicing Muslim. Yeah. Well, being as a practicing Muslim, it's one of the greatest things they say is the best gift or the best honour that's bestowed upon you is to be in service to the people. And and life has taught me that as uh an evolution of myself, and I like who I am now. I really despite the losses that I've I've I've suffered along the way, I really like who I am now because I've taken all of my lessons and I'm trying to apply them and trying to give back, and I think that's that's the beautiful thing about my own mental health journey is overcoming the difficulties and the inability to rise to a challenge and suddenly, you know, you're sticking me in the trench, I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

So, those that are listening, how do we help uh more people in the community? Um, and and just take what you've developed for yourself and how do we bottle that up and share it with others? Because loneliness, particularly across Sussex, we've covered that previously on other episodes. Loneliness is a big factor in this. Also, the always on society, you know, uh always working, always online, these are all effects. Um, anyone else got a mental health story to share around the table?

SPEAKER_05 14:35

I actually obviously we all have mental health, but in terms of the way that we're talking about it, I don't remember my life not being under either some form of mental health service. I was under CAMS from the age of nine, um, child, adolescent, and mental health service. Um, I then went under the youth service from 16 to 19, and at 21 I finally got diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder. Um, I don't know if it's the same now, but back then they didn't like diagnosing children. So it's not that it took 21 years and I didn't get a diagnosis, it was because they wanted to let me develop.

SPEAKER_04 15:19

Um but do you think that's gone too far the other way now? It does feel that labels are used a lot these days, and and sometimes it's helpful, right, to have a label.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

It it was helpful, it was helpful for me um in at the time, and car CPTSD differs slightly from PTSD, um and you know it'll always be on like my NHS record, but I wouldn't identify with having CPTSD now. Um but I think what So I've heard of PTSD.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

What's CPTSD?

SPEAKER_05 15:54

It's complex. It's complex post-traumatic disorder, so PTSD is usually like one massive traumatic event. My understanding of it or how I've always been taught taught of it was CPTSD is long time exposure to stress, and then there's sort of a chemical change in in in the mind, and it's not necessarily one big thing. In my case, it was lots of big things, but actually it could be that you're in a stressful situation for a really long period of time and your brain sees that as normal.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

So this diagnosis was about what nine years ago.

SPEAKER_05 16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

And then how how how how have you used that to be where you are today?

SPEAKER_05 16:43

Um, I think it's it's taught me a lot about myself. I think the thing with the the diagnosis for me is it's taught me how to work on myself, and I think everybody should do that regardless of whether they've experienced mental health or not. But I've really had to work on my trigger factors, I've really had to work on what riles me up, what makes me upset, how to even express emotion in a safe way. They're all things that if you experience mental health, you have to learn. But I think they're all things we should learn from children anyway, and I think that is missing a bit in terms of especially younger people that I work with. We say that they're more in touch with their emotions, and I think they are to an extent, but I'm not sure they're feeling it, and everything's gone to diagnosis culture, so there's definitely a lot of labelling, and I think schools have changed quite a bit, obviously, since I was at school, because now they sort of give a colour wheel, don't they?

SPEAKER_04 17:41

Of how are you feeling? How would you label your feeling? Um, so we're definitely moving along that that journey, but I always wonder whether we're gonna go too far that way.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

And I've seen it, I've I've seen it in younger people that I know who um were diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. And for me, actually, when you really know the situation, again, actually, it's just trauma that that individual is experiencing trauma, just the wrong word. But we're we're putting a label around something that actually the best thing I ever did was go to counselling and go to therapy and really work through what I'd been through and understand why I was thinking and acting the way that I was.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Um, but while I've And that's not for everyone, it that there's a time when you might want to get into the Pandora's box and understand the root cause.

SPEAKER_05 18:41

Um and so I didn't go into I I'll be completely honest, up until about a year and a half, I was very much like therapists, waste of time. That was my meant that was my mentality. And I think it came from teenagers, we're all really rebellion anyway, but I was forced to be under CAMS, didn't really want to be there, wanted to be out doing things I shouldn't be. Um so then when I was an adult, I just saw it as something that I was forced to do. They didn't help, what was the point? Um, but as I was preparing to sort of get married, and we were talking about families and things, I was that for me was the turning point of if I don't find a way to drop the baggage now, I'm gonna carry it and potentially mess up the relationship that I hoped to have for the rest of my life. And so I had there was a lot of time.

SPEAKER_04 19:38

And there was the right time for you and then a reason. That's good, that's good. Um, I mean for me, I I had therapy, and I think it's very much dependent upon the therapist. The first one I had, uh, I used to think about how to avoid getting into the uncomfortable conversations, uh, and we ended up just having a sweet chat. And I would always think, Yes, I got away with just having a good conversation. Then there were other techniques with uh another which felt a little bit more painful, felt like going for a brain massage, and then you knew it was affecting you. But for me, the thing that shifted it was um sharing it, it was a a group sharing session, um, which was very powerful. Um, and I found that that really was magical for me, and for every single person around us, it would be a different, a different kind of approach.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

I think um it's confidence in your therapist for stars. A lot of men come and they might have had therapy, but there's a a set limit to the amount of sessions that they can have, whereas with mention listening groups, they can come as much as they want. And they often find maybe if it's somebody of the opposite gender talking to them about male issues, they won't necessarily have an understanding or an appreciation of actually the male, the male domain, as it were. And so that's one of the I think one of the beauties of what we do at Men Share, is that obvious obviously we've got there's a sister share, but the men's share is the guys come and they're talking to men who have been through the same situation, feeling kind of similar thoughts, similar patterns, similar behaviours, they can relate. And once they find their place where they can relate to that, they can open up a lot more and have much more meaningful exchanges, much more interesting.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

And it's also with people that that are not connected to your life, not friends, not family, people that just see you for who you are without judgment.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

There is no judgment. You know, if somebody's in the circle and they're feeling emotional, there's the arm on the shoulder, there's all of that kind of thing. Biscuits as well as biscuits there as well. Just uh just to create a sense of just just making it less formal, bit more informal, bit more like a uh a space just to come and and converse.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

But also it's a sense of belonging, isn't it? I I I think a big part of it where people do feel quite lonely, they've traveled, maybe they're new in town, uh They don't feel that sense of community. We've spoken in in the past about community centres being the hub or pubs being the hubs of communities where people feel really disconnected. Sometimes mention listening group can be that that belonging, that that sense of togetherness.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

So we use the analogy, like okay, people come and have a cup of tea and a biscuit, but tea is thoughts, he is emotion, and that is actions. So they come and they're gonna talk. What's their thoughts? And what are the emotions as a consequence of that? So now, okay, what are the actions? Taking myself away from a path of self-destruction or isolation or mental anguish and putting myself in a place where you know, like the nature walks, endorphins, dopamine, a hug, oxytocin, all these kinds of things.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Recently, Mentor Listening Group has started a a bunch of collaborations with all sorts of services. Uh, and a big shout out to you because you've been doing a poster day Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, all the way through mental health awareness week. Uh, you've been giving us uh if people want to follow you as well, because you you've been doing your social media thing.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah, I mean like I mean like my background's marketing, so the last year, couple years I've just like, okay, Sean, let me take control of this, let me, you know, with your approval, just really push the men's share mission, really, on Facebook, on Instagram. But then I thought, you know, on TikTok I've got a little channel, it's called Bring Your S H I T, but it's basically I take away the themes from the circles, but we we've maintained confidentiality, we never discuss the men or the actual details. But what theme has resonated that night? So perennialation, custody, uh, divorce, addiction, um, uh overthinking, all of these kind of things. Um, and because there's not much point me having a us having a circle or a group and just keeping those learnings within the circle, then what's the benefit to to society as a whole? The aim or the mission is right, let's educate everybody as much as possible about their own mental well-being, how to deal with things, the issues that are out there. So I like that.

Real Coping Habits From The Table

SPEAKER_04 23:58

That's the themes that are coming from the circles. Let's bring your SHIT. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and they can follow your insights there. Yes. Um, if we just quickly go around the table, what have we found personally works for us? How do we keep how do we keep looking after our heads? Um, Michaela.

SPEAKER_08 24:17

So I do tend to never isolate myself. When I'm going down and I feel like I'm going through some trouble, I do is when I spend the most of the time with my family. And they'll notice that uh because I will go and the first thing I'll talk about it's what I'm feeling and uh how I think I will get through, what's the solution for the problem, and then just talking about it, I'll feel better straight away. So I never wait until I'm in such a a depression that I can I don't even want to see anyone straight away. I do that.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

So you believe a problem shed is a problem half. That that's the case.

SPEAKER_08 24:55

I think that's the the main thing. And to do it straight away because people just they just let things roll up in in a circle for too long. Uh and then it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

That's a British thing though, isn't it? We we like to be stiff out a bit cold, not not really talking out loud about our feelings or important things.

SPEAKER_08 25:11

Maybe because they want to feel like that's uh the strongest, like you want to see yourself as a strong individual and you don't want your family to see your weakness. But we at least in my family, we see that if you are able to talk about your problems, that means you you are facing your problems. Just the fact that you're aware of them and you're talking about them and you're looking for people that uh can help you with it. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

And also finding a good listener. So when you're talking to someone, quite often people are quite rushed in life. So it's nice that your family sit down and listen. Uh I can see you got more on your list, yeah. Yeah, here we go.

SPEAKER_08 25:45

I am in general, I am very positivity, and I even have like this funny story that I have one time I was in the in the phone with the headphones uh talking to my mum in the car, and it was quite a new car. Um, and then someone crashed into me. And obviously, my mum was panicking. I said, I need to hang up because obviously I shouldn't be on the on the phone, even though I have the hair for uh the airpods.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Did you cause the crash?

SPEAKER_08 26:07

Um no, a drunk guy, a kid just came into me. He didn't stop in the red light, and the police came and everything, and they were like, Oh, are you okay? And I was just thinking, I just bought the fish and chips, it's getting cold. And the police was like, Oh, we need to take all your details. I was like, Can I just send them? It's gonna my foot's getting cold. And then my mom called me back and she was she was crying and she was like, Oh my god, how hard how are you? I was like, Well, you know, mom, I hate walking and I'm I have to walk home because they were not kind enough to offer me a lift because I just live four minutes away, even though that's a lot for me. And then I am gonna eat some cold fish and chips. But rather than that, I'm pretty sure the insurance will cover, so I'm just gonna be patient and she's like, How can you be so chill? I was like, because they're bigger things. I always think about bigger problems and uh nothing. It's as big as if you can if you're still healthy, if you still have everyone you love around you, and if you still have a job and a place to go to and food to go and eat, I don't think that I should overthink little things like uh like a car and other things.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

We always love your stories. I remember the one about the driving lesson. Um but gratitude, right? I think what you're saying there is gratitude. I think I think that that was on my list to to to at the end of the day think about three things that you're really grateful for. Yes.

SPEAKER_08 27:25

Um I focus on that. And when uh I have obviously everyone has little traumas from their childhood, but um I done a really good thing. I I talk and constantly talk about those. Obviously, I always talk them not with family, with friends, because the traumas were were with family, so I always talk them with friends and uh try to also make them open up a little bit about their traumas because it it sounds harsh. Oh, that makes me feel better. No, it just makes you makes me aware that everyone has their problems and also make them aware that I also have have troubles and we can just talk about it and feel better. So I but now growing up I start just focusing on good memories. So when people ask me how was my childhood, I always say it was really great because I kept focusing on the really good memories I have. Because I realized that um and I said I I read a little bit about that as well, that our memories start we start losing memories because it starts like it's like a box where it where he has a limit of space, so we select memories that we keep, and we do that in unconsciously. But I was trying to do it consciously, just trying to keep the best memories and try to remember them all the time and avoid the the bad ones. And I mean very good.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

I mean you've mastered this, Michaela.

SPEAKER_08 28:39

And I also believe in energy. I I I know that a lot of people don't believe that, but I think we attract what we think. Uh I believe that if we have good energy and we think about good things, we attract good things.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

And this is what Sharif was saying earlier, um, and like aura and and and the energy around you.

SPEAKER_08 28:56

I do really believe that's a great one.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

But Michaela made some really good points as well about gratitude. Gratitude is like when all the books are reading and everything else, it's a very important part of being grounded and just being appreciative of where you are, and that that does help an awful lot. And also another interesting point, you talked about um the upper the upper lip, right? One of the biggest challenges I found is the Asian community coming forward talking about their problems. It's very underneath the carpet, it's very hard to get the comes to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

And when I think about my dad, you know, coming from India, he also struggles with expressing you know feelings and and and that kind of thing. But um, yeah, no, this is great. Uh any other good ideas around the table, Abigail? What works for you?

SPEAKER_05 29:50

I'm kind of the opposite. I think I think where everything I do, right, whether it's as a counsellor or in my day job, I'm surrounded by people and 99% of the time having to listen to people's problems. That actually I always try and make sure that I take time each week where it's just me, whether it's going for a dog walk or just a walk through nature and just getting back in touch with myself.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Like grounding yourself just in nature.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

I'm naturally not very good at it. I went through a few years where I felt really guilty that actually I was doing this, but you come to the realization where you've got to refuel yourself.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

And I think you can tell when you're in that zone, because this is the zone where you start to get fresh ideas, new energy just comes to your head. For me, it's in the sauna. I go and take a look, I I don't do exercise. I I I go and uh have a long sauna. Uh Maureen, what works for you? Obviously, not the chocolate.

unknown 30:49

Not the chocolate.

SPEAKER_09 30:50

Um nature for me, dog walking. I think um I I I walk my dog every day, and and uh and I think also spending time with animals is incredibly therapeutic.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

And you've got to make the time for that, right? We're all busy in work and life and oh we're we're we're doing it. But the dog makes you the dog makes you get out of the way.

SPEAKER_09 31:06

The dog is a really good discipline, you know, because I've you didn't if I didn't have the dog, you might think, oh I just see him. But the dog makes you go. So it's good and and um and I love that. I go out and I won't, you know, there's a field near me, and uh I've been watching over the last weeks the farmer ploughed it, and then now and then he I saw him sewing it and you didn't offer to help, no? No, no, no, and then I've then I've seen the little shoots come up, and it's just sort of fascinating watching the seasons and and the the nature and and and often I'll just sit down on a bench with a dog and and just breathe in the air and and just to have some time yourself, I think. And um yeah, you always feel you never regret going for a walk ever.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

I I think also when you're in your head and you're sat there thinking, maybe negative thoughts, sometimes doing an action, whether it's activity, whether it's a workout, boxing, or even painting, I found painting anything that gets you out of thinking and something about doing. Ikebel, yeah, I don't think you got a dog, but you got four kids that get you out of the house.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

Over the years I've had a few uh big so I got clean off of the cracking arrow and but then I had two big uh relapses where I went straight back when I saw then things coming on before they came on. Now what I do is I do inventory. Like I check my own behavior, you know. I see things going left off, I see my brain and it how how do you cause correct it? How do you kick it back? Just reminding yourself like what's going on in your head. That is the main thing to like noticing, yeah, check yourself. Yeah. Um another thing that they both brought up is gratitude. Uh I'm extremely grateful. So I mean, whenever I'm going through anything, whatever has troubled me, I always speak to my higher power. That's pivotal for me. Uh it may not seem it, but I am a Muslim. I'm not a good one, but I keep my connection and that really helps me. I I don't know about anyone else, but for me it works. Uh and talking to my creator all day, whenever that's yeah, that's that's my counselor.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

James, you've been through a lot of stress lately, haven't you, with reform? Uh yes. How do you how do you look after your your mental health?

SPEAKER_00 33:18

I I'm the same with the the others really. I go for the walk, being out in the countryside. Um, yeah, for for me, especially if I'm in London, um, and it's just grey buildings everywhere to actually see some greenery. So you so yeah, every day I go to Regents Park for a walk on my lunch, um, unless it's too rainy, just because getting out there and clearing your head, I I think is the best way.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Any other tips before we wrap up? Michaela got another one on your list. You're rocking at this. When when was the last time you had a big problem? What what what big problem is on your mind at the moment, if you don't mind me asking?

SPEAKER_08 33:49

Um both my mum and my grandma have cancer.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_08 33:52

But I really think that they're gonna make it through.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

I wish I hadn't asked that now, I'm very sorry.

SPEAKER_08 33:57

No, it's fine because I think they're gonna both do great. And they are actually doing great with kinia. So they have the right set. Like my grandma still goes for walks of like two hours, and she still complains that her friends are too lazy to go to three hours walk. Like that's how positive and energetic she is.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

And I love the episode we did about gentle parenting where you talked about your grandmother and then how grateful you are. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:23

Oh, yeah, that that's good as well, yeah. But I was gonna say that uh obviously life is a role of course, so we could constantly go to bad things and then good things. So every time I'm in a bad situation, I just think I cannot get any worse than this. So something good must be coming, because it always comes something good afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Whenever I try that, it does it does then get worse.

SPEAKER_08 34:44

Oh, but yeah, and then you have to remind yourself that it oh oh it went worse, so now the chances of getting better are just just go higher. They just go higher. And I also always keep my mind to never feel sorry for myself. Because I think once we start uh uh making our situation, thinking about it and feeling sorry for ourselves, it really just makes us go down the hill. I always say, Oh, it's not that bad. Stop being so petty, like things will get better.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

That's kind of a bit of a dangerous thing to say as well, because for some of the men or people in general, their problem is massive to them. However small it might seem almost unsurmountable kind. Yeah, it's their problem and and it's a it's a big deal, and so you have to treat it respectfully as it's a big deal, and coping mechanisms like chocolate or crack cocaine or alcohol or or or or whatever are things that are just distractions, yeah. And the mind is probably the most powerful thing, and you've got to really learn to recognise it. And some guys, like you're talking about you've got to be consistent, you have to be so consistent because you can peak really, really high, and then you'll crash.

SPEAKER_04 35:57

Yeah, it's when it flip-flops from very high to very low. And I think most people, as humans, I think it's normal to ebb and flow, isn't it? It's unusual to be consistent, a flat line all over the street.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

This is this this is really important discipline. Discipline is a massive part of your recovery or having a good mental health space, and that discipline is the meditation, the nature walk. The I do boxing. I've taken up boxing the last year, I love it. But it's these kind of things that keep you grounded, painting, creative, outlets, reading books, um, all of these kind of things just to stay stay focused, have some goals, set some strategies for yourself, work towards them incrementally, don't overdo it, but know what you're capable of because like everybody's capable of something, but it's that belief. But when life and everything else starts to erode at you, that's when you start to lose the belief. So again, it's managing expectations, it's all of those kind of things that are quite quite quite important in the whole process.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

And if you're listening to this and you've been struggling, do reach out, do reach out, don't don't sit there in silence. Um, men share listening groups, sister share. Uh there's lots of services across Sussex and Surrey. And if you're thinking of a counsellor, there's a website, right, Maureen, to go and check the councillors, make sure they're registered.

SPEAKER_09 37:18

Yes, um, I would recommend uh going on to just look up the counselling directory online and there'll be lists, uh put you just put your area in and there'll be uh profiles of counsellors near you and they all describe themselves what they specialise in. You'll see usually see a photo of them, so you'll get a feel of who you're drawn to.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

And what have you what have you got a Google for that? Um the counselling directory. Counselling directory, okay.

SPEAKER_09 37:46

Yeah, and whoever's on that is you're assured that they are properly qualified with proper um qualifications that are needed because people can call themselves a counsellor and um they may not be fully qualified. So you need to make sure that they are.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

Thank you very much. Um I think that is a wrap. It's the second time we've visited Men Share Listening Group, so um yeah, it's always good to have you on. We've got Sister Share coming up in the coming weeks. We've got a previous episode on mental health as well. So if you've been fascinated by this, listen to the other episode too. Yeah, Sharif, thank you very much for joining us as a special guest. Thank you. James Tydee, Michaela Lille, Ichabel Khan, Maureen Jones, and Abigail Chapman Miller. Thank you very much. Uh, if you've enjoyed this, follow Sussex and Surrey soapbox on Spotify and join our Facebook group as well. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Tell us what do you think? Leave a comment below or click on send a text. Thank you for listening to the Sussex and Surrey soapbox.