Sussex & Surrey Soapbox
The 'Sussex & Surrey Soapbox' Podcast is a local roundtable plus special guests, exploring the issues that matter most. We tackle the topics that spark debate, challenge perspectives, and shape our communities — always with balance, openness, and respect.
Our panel brings together a diverse range of voices to unpack complex and sometimes emotive subjects, offering thoughtful discussion, differing viewpoints, and factual insight. While we don’t shy away from the tough conversations, we believe they’re best had with curiosity, good humour, and a focus on what truly matters.
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Thank you for your interest, Clive Hilton.
Sussex & Surrey Soapbox
Clicks, Coffee & Community: The Future of the High Street
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Special Guests:
- Michelle Lucas, Only Dogs Ltd - an award winning Dog grooming business on Lingfield High Street.
- Sami Ella Bristow, Blossoms Brunch & Coffee - a thriving community cafe in Godstone adept at navigating the challenges of rising costs & the sinkhole!
Plus Roundtable Featuring: Maureen Jones, Micaela Leal, Georgie Lucas, Aga Es, Abigail Chapman-Miller, James Tidy & Magdalena Rahman. Host: Clive Hilton.
The high street is not dying because people do not care; it is changing because online convenience, rising costs and shifting habits make old retail models hard to sustain. We hear from local business owners and residents on what is really squeezing independents and what a more service-led, community high street could look like.
• rising costs for small businesses, from VAT and wages to commercial utilities and rates
• the impact of disruption and access, including road closures and parking pressure
• why taking on a shop lease feels like high-stakes risk versus reward
• how service businesses like grooming and hospitality keep footfall local
• the Amazon effect, price gaps, reviews and the lure of next day delivery
• fast fashion, returns culture, waste and sustainability on the high street
• what people miss most, from Woolworths to M&S, and what would bring them back
• realistic optimism around quality, community spirit and younger generations
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Please click on 'Send a text' above & join our Facebook group to share your perspective and suggestions for future topics - Thank you for your interest! Clive.
Welcome And The High Street Problem
SPEAKER_05Welcome to the Sussex and Surrey Soapbox. Real viewpoints, real opinions, and a balanced conversation on the community issues that matter.
SPEAKER_06It's the Sussex and Surrey Soapbox, and this week we are getting into the high street and local businesses and the challenges facing and coming up with some suggestions about how we might conquer that. Walk down almost any British High Street today and you'll see empty units, shuttered windows, lots of vape shops, coffee shops. And we're we're going to be talking to two local businesses. And we want to find out what's going on. What's going on in the high street? Of course, people are shopping online, but how might we curb those behaviours across Sussex and Surrey? So without further ado, let's hand over to our special guests for an introduction. Sammy, would you like to go first?
SPEAKER_02Hello, yes. Um I'm Sammy Bristow, uh owner of Blossom's Godston Brunch and Coffee Shop. Welcome along and to my left.
SPEAKER_04To my left. Hello, my name's Michelle, and I own Only Dogs, Dog Grooming in Lingfield.
SPEAKER_00Hi, I'm Mags, and I'm Akira in the Crawley.
SPEAKER_01My name's James Tidy. I'm the vice chairman of Reform UK in Crawley.
SPEAKER_12I'm Jacqueline Inwood.
SPEAKER_03I've done lots of things, including having a shop on the High Street at one point. Hi, I'm Maureen. I'm a psychotherapist, but I also own a pub uh restaurant with rooms with my husband, so I have some strong opinions about the high street.
SPEAKER_11Oh yeah, I'm Abby. I'm a current Labour councillor in Oxford and also a candidate of the same area, as well as sit on the executive committee.
SPEAKER_08Hello, I'm Georgie Lucas, I'm 57. I'm a self-employed nail technician from South Nutfield in Surrey.
SPEAKER_07I'm Aga, I'm a resident of Dorking for the past 10 years.
SPEAKER_09I'm Michaela. I work as assistant manager on the High Street in a local restaurant.
SPEAKER_06So obviously, got a few local business owners here. Um who wants to go first? Who's finding it particularly challenging and
Godstone Sinkhole And Rising Costs
SPEAKER_06why? Sammy, start with you, Godston.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Um obviously it's a well-known fact. Look, Godston is suffering quite significantly due to um unforeseen circumstances of a hole in the road that has divided the whole of the village.
SPEAKER_06It's just past its first year birthday uh a couple of months ago. Is that getting better, by the way?
SPEAKER_02Um not as of yet. Um we're still awaiting any more knowledge of um when the road is to reopen. We did obviously here spring. Um, but I feel like the blossoms on the way out and we haven't heard anything else since.
SPEAKER_06And this is a privately owned business. You have a fantastic cafe, uh, blossoms. This is in the centre of Godstone. What would you say are the top three challenges facing you from running a profitable business that you can that you can feel you know secure and not worry about every day?
SPEAKER_02Um I would definitely say what's affecting us quite significantly at the moment is um obviously taxes, VOT, um increase in wages, um, which I am completely pro. Um, but it's where the money comes from that is is falling short. We just can't up our prices anymore. Um we've hit the limit right now. Um and obviously consumer habits, um, people not going out as much, not spending money on things on like unnecessary things, I suppose. Um people are a bit more wary about where their money's going.
SPEAKER_06And at what point did that change? At what point, how far back have you got to think that actually things were good on that day where you didn't have to worry, you didn't have these these challenges? How far back would you say that is?
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, I might not be like some of the other business owners um that you have on the show today, but we have only been trading for three and a half years, so we're still a relatively new business. Um we're obviously established, but we are still quite new. Um, we never had to suffer the struggles of COVID. So I feel like it's always been a challenge. Um I've worked in hospitality for about 14 years now, um, under big corporations, small corporations, independence, and to be honest, I don't see it getting any better. It only seems to be getting worse.
SPEAKER_06Okay, good point. And we're gonna come back to you in just a moment as well with some ideas for the public listening. What can people do to help local businesses and support the high street as well? Uh, we've also posted in Facebook across a number of towns just to find out the sentiment. Which shops would you bring back? What would draw people back to the high street? We'll get into that in just a moment. But before
A Service Business On The High Street
SPEAKER_06we do, we've got another special guest here. Uh Michelle, your dog grooming business, you've actually got a physical premises on a high street within the village.
SPEAKER_04Well that's really, really rare within dog grooming. Um, because I mean, from a business perspective, it's it makes no sense to be on the high street because I could save myself business rates and electricity and gas and all the rest of it. It's far cheaper to have a little pod in my garden or in my back room, which is what 90 odd percent of dog groomers do. So that's you know, it makes business sense to do that. For me, it was important to be on the high street and to be visible. And I've made my business incredibly visible. I haven't blacked out the windows like a lot of dog groomers do. You know, it's I've got a bus stop ride outside and you can see every inch of the grooming area because it's for me, it's a trust issue with with um clients leaving their dog with me. But from a business perspective, it's really stupid to have a high street store because I'm having to pay business rates and so when you're doing the dog grooming, it's not like you're running a babysitter or a sort of nursery. Uh you're looking after someone's dog and they kind of want to Yeah, well they they want to know that their dog's well cared for and well looked after. And for a lot of groomers, you'll hand your dog over at the door and then you get it back a couple of hours later and you don't know what happens because it's all happens behind closed doors and with big final windows.
SPEAKER_06So that's your differentiator.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's where my USP comes in because I'm a hundred percent you can see the entire groom area from the high street. Anyone walking past can watch someone else's dog be groomed. And they do frequently stand outside and wave, and the kids feel it make me feel a little bit like a goldfish.
SPEAKER_06But how have you found business as business um?
SPEAKER_04Well I'm very lucky in the fact that I'm in an industry that's booming. We've you know, we're a nation of dog lovers, and that's that sort of transfers into the fact that they all need grooming. Um so business is great for me, but there are still challenges being on a high street, so I'm having to my my rates have to be slightly more expensive than a lady working out of her dining room because I'm my overheads are so much higher. Um, but then equally I'm more visible than the lady, so it's kind of you know, it it's it's a bit of a balance. So there are challenges parking, trying to get through. I mean, there is a road closed in in Linkfield every day, and there are three roads in, and one or the other of them is closed at least once a week.
SPEAKER_06And parking is one of those things that that that was noticed by the general public. We got hundreds of responses across multiple town Facebook groups, but we'll get to that in a moment. James, I think you've got a question as well.
SPEAKER_01Uh not a question, no, I was gonna completely agree with you. Um my uh I remember when we had our family dog and you take her to be groomed, and then um you'd walk past the groomers and she'd sort of dig her paws in and refuse to go in. So I think I think it's absolutely great to have a business where you can see because obviously you care so much about your dog. And anybody who's taken their dogs to groomers know that there's that dogs don't always enjoy it.
SPEAKER_06Now we've also got other other business owners from around the table.
The True Risk Of Taking A Lease
SPEAKER_06Anyone else want to chime in, Jack?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, well, I closed my business after COVID. We we came back after COVID, but I decided um to close it. And I got into a bit of a discussion on social media with somebody a few weeks ago who said, Oh, the problem with the high street is the rents are too high. And I just would like to say to people, taking on a shop is not a casual thing. It's like buying a flat or a house. You buy a lease, there are legal fees, you're then tied into something, usually for ten years with a break clause, maybe after five years. So before you've even thought about selling anything or doing anything, you've got all the things that we all know in our own lives have gone up, but there are different rates when you have a shop for heating, lighting, and water. They're more expensive than domestic rates. You then need your credit card machine, and you've then got insurance here, public liability, employers' liability, and then you've got the staff costs. Um, and that's before you've even bought any, you've got to fit out the shop, and that's before you've even bought any stock. So the whole thing really boils down to risk versus reward. So are you prepared to take out a huge loan for the legal fees for fitting out the shop for investing in this lease and then paying every month the rent, which is which is substantial. I wouldn't take on a shop now. Because when I when I close my shop, people are in tears and oh, this is part of our routine, we come in on a Saturday morning. We love it. Um, but I wouldn't take on a shop now if it was given it for free because the cost of everything else that I mentioned, the utilities and paying the staff, it's just extortionate. When my my shop was very different, it was called that quirky place, it was full of quirky stuff, and I used to drive around the country going to be.
SPEAKER_06That's all on Rygate High Street.
SPEAKER_12Rygate High Street, yeah. So I'd go to auctions, car booths, and I'd buy loads of weird stuff and it was brilliant. Then after COVID, it just all kind of I just didn't have the energy or enthusiasm for it because it was very hard for me to find stock. So that was a certain type of business where I found weird stuff and sold it, and there were always people wanting to buy in Rygate. However, you might be selling dresses or jewellery, so you take a huge risk on buying a load of stock which then sits there, and we've seen it, I've seen it very sadly a shop in Dorking that I liked clothes, but in my heart of hearts, I knew she wouldn't last because you're just hoping that somebody will come past on a whim and like that vase or like that rug um or like that teapot, and people just don't have the cash. And you know, we have Amazon, we have for everyday stuff like hoover bags or whatever. You know, we can't put the genie back in the bottle. So the only way for a shop to survive now, I think on the high street, is to provide a service, dog grooming being a brilliant example, or you cut hair, or you serve coffee, somewhere social where people get together.
SPEAKER_06To be niche, to be niche and more community orientated rather than a shop shop.
SPEAKER_12Exactly, because uh yeah, just just hoping you get a load of dresses that people want to buy, the risk is just too high for award, and any money you do make it attacks to the eyeballs on. So um it's it's very basic economics, very basic arithmetic.
SPEAKER_06And Sammy, does that resonate with you three and a half years ago? If you could turn back time, would you still start your business up?
SPEAKER_02That's a tough one.
SPEAKER_06Uh don't say that.
SPEAKER_02It's a tough one. Um also I'd just like to say, Michelle, I do actually get my dog broomed review, and you're amazing. So I recognise you know, oh Sammy. Um yeah, I just want to say thank you in your fab.
SPEAKER_06Um Do you watch through the window? Are you one of those that give the dog and then you step out? Do you?
SPEAKER_02No, no, I don't, no.
SPEAKER_06You trust Michelle.
SPEAKER_02Um, I wouldn't say I would go back and not do what I've done because I feel like I've learnt so much, and it really has put in perspective how hard the industry is. Um, and I know that sounds like why would you do it then? And it simply is it because it's made me who I am today. I've I've learnt so much, I've employed amazing people, and most of my staff are still with me. Um, however, if I had to do it for money, um, because obviously as a business, you want to make money, and it doesn't have to be a lot, just enough to get by and pay pay your own way, then I would say no, it's not worth it.
SPEAKER_06That's that's sad.
SPEAKER_02Um it is sad, and it's it's very difficult because sometimes we're at points where the bills far outweigh what we earn. Absolutely. And people, I think another thing that is is really beneficial when we do discuss what could help um people kind of support the local businesses and anyone trying to kind of make it out of this hard time would be more understanding. Um, a lot of people don't realise how much it really does cost unless you're in it. So when you're charged £3.90 for a latte, we don't see that £3.90. We're lucky if we see 20p of that. And I think more understanding for the businesses, what we actually have to outlay and whether we see anything at the end of that month.
SPEAKER_06Well, it's funny you should say that because you you you you spend, as you say, £3.90 on a latte and you only get £20. I wonder these vape shops, what's the margin in the vape shops? But let's not just go there just yet. Georgia, I know you run a business as well from not from a premises.
SPEAKER_08No, I work from home and I work from home very deliberately because um very differently to Michelle, my clients don't want to be in a goldfish bowl. They want to sit quietly, have their nails done, and not be on a high street. Um, I think a lot of them come to me specifically for that reason. It's very private. But in addition to that, the overhead for me um as a nail bar would be would be ridiculous as a one-man band. And I wouldn't want to employ anybody because I wouldn't want to go down that route of having employees and paying national insurance and and and correcting any of their mistakes and insuring them and all that sort of thing. But I think also it's quite it's it's quite my business is very flexible for me because if I'm closed for the day, if I'm not working, nobody looks at my window and thinks, oh gosh, that's closed today. My business must be bad. You know, I can I can be quite uh invisible really. I can just sort of like work when I want to and and be and be um available, you know, when I need to, and then have days off and nobody considers that my business is going down the drain. Uh but also when I have I have worked in nail bars before, there is so much uh uh expense to running a nail bar, to running any business, that the public just don't even appreciate, they don't even see. Uh so I know that when I when I charge my clients what um what I charge them, they get value for money, but equally I get a good income from what I do. I don't have to fork out so much before I actually take my cut.
SPEAKER_06So if I've understood correctly, you know, we're largely services, right? Georgie, you're lucky you haven't got the overheads, you've got the flexibility, and we'll come back what challenges you're finding. Jack, previously you've been in the shop selling things, and you thought, yeah, I'm done with that, fine. We've got Sammy, who's running a rather successful cafe, I've said, very community spirited in in Godstead, but nonetheless challenging. And a services business service. So services and hospitality seems to be the way to go. Before we get into the Facebook uh responses, just hands up. Who
Amazon Convenience And Cheap Returns
SPEAKER_06would like to support more independent, whether it's independent bakers, shops, services country? Obviously, all hands up. Uh you're gonna like this. So put your hands up if you use Amazon regularly. All our hands have gone up. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Apart from James. No, I generally can't remember the last time I used Amazon. I'm not an Amazon fan. Um and that isn't to say I don't shop online, but no, not from not for Amazon at all.
SPEAKER_06Who'd you get to do your shopping?
SPEAKER_01Uh but what do I need from Amazon? That's the question. What do I need? I don't I there's nothing that I need from Amazon. I don't buy a lot of stuff, and um, there's nothing that I need from Amazon that I can't get elsewhere. But that isn't to say that I'm not guilty of shopping on my own, uh of course I have you ever shopped on that? Absolutely. Oh, you have done it once or twice. Yeah, but no, I I genuinely can't can't remember the last time I shopped for Amazon would have been years ago.
SPEAKER_08I had an interesting thing happen to me uh last week. So I needed to buy an ointment, and I thought, well, I'll go into my chemist to get this ointment. And when I went and spoke to the chemist, um he gave me two options, both of them, one was 24 quid and one was 29. Um so I bought one of them, came home, and I thought, do you know it's the first time I've bought something without reading reviews for ages because I always like to read a review because I shop a lot on Amazon. So I thought, well, I'm just gonna go on Amazon and read the reviews for this ointment and see what he's given me and see what everybody thinks. And when I went on to Amazon, it was £14 for something that just cost me £24 in The Chemist. And I was really choked. I just thought, well, no wonder Amazon wins because you know, that sort of that sort of service at that price point with all the reviews, I I didn't have to park, I didn't have to get out of my car, I didn't have to use fuel to get there. It was just I was I was really quite um miffed, and I was miffed for the shops really, because I just thought they can't compete with that. Whatever whatever they do, they just can't compete.
SPEAKER_06Well, also it's quite funny because Amazon, the way it works, even when you've got stuff in your basket, it monitors your basket before you've even bought anything, and it will start logistically the warehousing, and it's gonna get to the point where there's vans apparently in neighbourhoods with the most common stock on there, so you'll get more of the same day delivery rather than next day, which is starting to happen now. So their business model, they're very much and not to mention drones in some parts of the world, uh, where they're doing delivery. So interesting, James, who's ordered from Amazon once or twice, but not many times.
SPEAKER_01No, many times, just not recently, just not a place I go to. Um but Where where do you go just out of interest?
SPEAKER_06For for what? I mean Which shop? Like Cloves. You're always very well dressed. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01I'll go I'll go to Charles Turret, I'll go to London, make a trip, uh, or Mark Suspencer's, that sort of stuff. But you for Claire's, I think you've got to go for for Blake, you've got to go make sure they fit. Um so so always in person. But I I when I was younger, I did a temp job over Christmas for John Lewis, and I had somebody come in and say, Your SD card is 69.99, I can buy it for £8 on Amazon. I was quite shocked, so I go to the person who's a team leader and I say, Okay, what's the difference? Why is it so much more? And they just said, Well, you've got to explain to them that we have overheads, we've got a business to run, we've got a premise. And I was like, Right, okay, I'm gonna tell them they should buy on Amazon. Because the the it was nearly a 10 times markup.
SPEAKER_06How long were you at that shop for?
SPEAKER_01It was only Christmas jobs, so I don't think it would have had me if I was telling people to buy an Amazon. But it was, yeah, John Lewis, it was only uh only only a month or two.
SPEAKER_06Interesting though, isn't it? But I mean, shoes, would you buy shoes of hammer size? No, there are some things that you want to go in, touch, feel, try on, and clothes is definitely going that way where you can order a lot, send most of it back, and just keep one or two things, yeah.
SPEAKER_08I've just bought a sofa in the last couple of days that I've never sat on, and I've bought it based on the reviews, but I bought it because there is a returns policy. So my theory is I can sit on it for a week and have it in my room. If it doesn't, if it doesn't look great, then I can just send it back. But I I thought that was quite high risk. But the price point was so good that actually it made sense for me to buy the sofa.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was gonna say I've I've worked for the last got 20 years now. I've done half a day in an Oxlam shop in a local area. And uh we've uh over the years uh we have noticed that we're just getting more and more brand new stuff that people have obviously ordered online. Probably sat thought, I'll send that back, don't don't like it, um, and then forgotten about it, or they can't be bothered to send it back. So it's great for the charity shops because we're getting this new stuff and you know, we can sell it and and um that's all very good. But but uh it just amazes me sometimes the waste of and I've done it myself to be honest, but the waste of money. People think they're saving money, but um you know they're not really because they're they're just you know, they get stuff and it doesn't fit or it's not right and they don't and they just don't return it.
SPEAKER_06Driving bad behaviours and that whole sustainability conversation. And when we think about cost of living as well, a previous episode.
SPEAKER_01Uh James, I I think that that's the that's the point is we have products that are so cheap that people buy them and go, you know what, it doesn't really matter. It's not worth my time going to spend two pounds on parking, driving it and staying there to go and return something that costs a few quid. And it's almost we're we're we're punished by things things being so cheap.
SPEAKER_00I'm buying a lot online as well, but not of Amazon, but of Sheen, which is like let's say the waiting time is longer than from Amazon, but it's like only worth two three pounds. Like I wearing the shoes today, which was worth five pounds from the Sheen. And if something is not it's not it's not suiting to me, then I I can't be bothered to go and you know pack it again and give it back to shop. I'm giving to charity shops as well. So I think this is a great option as well.
SPEAKER_09Often on chain and team or when you try to return, it's not worth for them to pay the label to send back. So they let you keep the product and they still refound you. So I often, if I order something doesn't fit my don't like, I give to my friends or to my sister with no cost, they give me the money back. Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_01That's just remind me. I was speaking to a chap who manages um quite a number of NCP car parks, a company that I think I actually recently gone bankrupt. And he said to me, the only car parks they have that are actually profitable are within a few hundred yards of the Sports Direct or a Primark, because Primark, I don't I don't I think until recently don't do online shopping. And Sports Direct have got a really horrific returns policy where it's not worthwhile. And it's literally the only way they can incentivize people to come into town, as much as they try with all the money they had, was come here because there's you can go to shops that have, you know, unpleasant return policies.
SPEAKER_04No, I th I think that fast fashion is killing at the high stream because as everyone has said, it's so cheap to buy online. You can order 15 things and send fourteen back. There's no incentive now to go out. Whereas you know, thirty even thirty years ago, not even that long ago, most of the time one of the adults in the household was at home. Looking after the children. So they had all the time in the world to go into town and look for something quality that would last ten years. Whereas they don't have that now because everyone's working, everyone's busy, they don't have time. They buy most of their shopping at nine o'clock at night sitting on the sofa on their phone. So they don't have two hours to drive into town, spend an hour looking, trying something on, and then driving home again.
SPEAKER_06It does seem to become very commodity-driven, quick gratification, buy click click, turns up next day and then send it back. There's no nothing deeper. Abby?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, I mean I think we've got um definitely round fashion, but I think I think it's wider than that. So me and my wife actually recently made the change from shopping in supermarkets to going to a local butcher and the local market. And that only came about because my dad drinks in what I call a really old traditional pub, and every Sunday they go and have sort of an open the box, which is a raffle and you win meat from the local butcher. And we'd won a couple of times and we really liked it. And we're like, Well, just go and try it out, and actually, our shop is cheaper and better doing that than it is going into the supermarket. But the perception in my mind was always like it's gonna cost a fortune. So I think there are times where actually it is cheaper to go out. I appreciate there's accessibility issues and time issues, but that we need to look at that behaviour across the board, not just in fashion.
SPEAKER_01I I think I think in terms of that, it's uh you're 100% right. It's it's that risk, is that sort of grey area where you go into a butcher's and you're like, what type of butchers is this? Is this where I'm spending £100 on something ridiculous? And so that's what people is. If you go into a supermarket, um you you have a vague idea of what you're buying, you know the price. If you go into a super if you go into butchers, which is 100% you're doing the right thing, this is what we should be doing. You don't quite know whether you're spending four pounds or forty pounds on a on a on a piece of meat. So I think uh a lot of people who go to the butchers, most people are people who go there, they know what they're buying, they speak to the butchers who who will tell them what they should buy and what's the most appropriate. Um and that's what you need to be doing. But it is that sort of slight it's slightly daunting going in because it it's the perception that it could be some ridiculous place where you're spending a fortune.
SPEAKER_11Definitely. I mean w we actually just tried it by each week, we just bought one thing, so we could we were too shy to like go how much does that cost, maybe too stereotypically British there. But um 100% agree. Now we know roughly what everything's gonna cost us. But it's daunting going in if you've never done it before.
SPEAKER_06I I think also, isn't it a choice? So if we want to make time and effort to go to a butcher's, a baker's, then the supermarket or greater it's a choice that we have to consciously do to support independent businesses rather than the easiest, quickest. Uh and Sammy, just quickly, and then we'll come to you, Jack. Any of this resonating with you? Are we covering the challenges for you? I mean, you're quite lucky in that you're the sort of community hub as well. So that's I I guess what you've got going for you. You you're a great place for people to come and meet, talk, and feel like part of a community.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that definitely works in our favour. Um, we obviously have a lot of locals, we've built up such a rapport with the same people who come into us most days. However, I will say that I wouldn't necessarily always buy my things from independence. I know it's bad, and I probably shouldn't say that, but the cost of say one of my almond croissants is £3.90. That's um from a local bakery that I source them from, and we sell them as £3.90. Whereas if you go to an Aldi, you have a bakery section there, and yeah, it might not be as great, but it's about 50p for a croissant. So I do also understand with people and money and watching what they're spending, I do also understand why they do it.
SPEAKER_06Um, because a lot of people can't afford that, and I I understand, especially with the squeeze, and it's only getting more of a squeeze, so we get it, but it would be nice if we spent more time and effort supporting local businesses.
SPEAKER_02Of course, like we you know, we have so many people who support us, and we couldn't do it without the people supporting us because we need them to walk through the doors for us to be able to stay open, of course. Like, I really do appreciate those people, but I do also understand that not everyone has the free range of money to be able to spend three pounds with me that they might not if they went to a supermarket. So I'm not saying that um independents feel angry at the public because that's not the case. I think what it is is we have to charge more because it's our overheads, and unfortunately, that comes down to the customer to have to pay that.
SPEAKER_06Very true. Uh Jack, did you want to chime in?
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I just thought it'd be fun just to call up my Amazon profile and see what I've bought recently. And the first point is I think there are lots of different shops, and a lot of them have disappeared from the high street completely. Um, a lot of it is tech as well, so why would a shop stock up with tech, which is probably gonna go out of date, etc. etc. But I think the thing I would say is a lot of this, I mean I just bought some ball 150 labels, stick-on labels, a Wellington boot stand, some waterproof cushions for the garden, some guitar plectrums. And I'm thinking I've ordered these, just a point really that Michelle was making earlier, sitting on my sofa thinking, oh, it just popped into my head, I'll do that nine o'clock at night. And sometimes it's actually been there the same day. But they're really I ought to be taxed on that. Sorry to get a little bit political, but I think for that convenience, somewhere along the line, I think we have to pay for it. And I think it's not unreasonable if some of this stuff. I mean, Holland and Barrett, I can see why Holland and Barrett's shot because I buy all my vitamins on here now. And yeah, maybe there should be some sort of offset with a tax for that kind of delivery. If you want it delivered within a certain time frame, then perhaps I should be paying for that for that fantastic service.
SPEAKER_06And we've all been guilty of that, sat on the sofa. Oh, I must need it, and then boom, it will be there the next day. Um,
What Facebook Misses About Shops
SPEAKER_06just quickly turning to Facebook. So we asked across a whole bunch of town Facebook groups, uh, and we've got quite a few responses to this. This is what we put. Um, what's one shop the town lost that you still missed today? The other question is what would get you using the high street more now? They're the sort of two questions. Now, um, we've got a whole bunch of comments, so a good few hundred comments across various Facebook groups. We put it through our friend AI and came up with this report that we've all got round in front of us. Now, just quickly, uh, there's probably no surprise of the the one that's top of the list. Which shop would we bring back to our high street? I think we'd all agree as well, wouldn't we? Woolwolf's is top of the list. Woolies and the pick and mix uh was there. Um, number two was Marks and Spencer's, your favourite shop there, James.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, I I must say actually.
SPEAKER_06Was that just you? Keep posting the comments as an anonymous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think Crawley has had has had all of these shops at one point, but we've now got none of them. Um but I'm a bit too young to remember Woolworths being in Crawley.
SPEAKER_06Well, the point on Crawley was any branded shop. Uh I think they've lost a lot of brand shops, Debian's MS, uh, BHS. In fact, I don't think there is a brand shop left, is it?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. We have we have uh BM bargains, Prilock, Primarch. Prior, big Primark, um corrector. Yeah, but not not into the shops that are enjoyable to shop in, the sort of shops you go in and out of as quickly as possible.
SPEAKER_08We um I live in near Red Hill and um we lost Marks and Spencer's in Red Hill and it was in the precinct, the Belfry precinct. Um and now that's absolutely dead. You know, you wander through and there's lots of other shops that have gone, I think, on the on the tail end of Marks and Spencer's going. But it's it's almost sad to be in there. Uh and it's obviously affecting the other stores that are that are remaining, and and you wonder how long they'll cling on. Um I know they've got a new diagnostic centre in there for the NHS, which is great. Uh, but it's not what you'd go to a shopping mall for. You know, when I was about, I don't know, uh 18, Saturday shopping was a sort of destination day, and you'd go off shopping with your friends and you'd spend everything that you'd earned a week, um, and it would be a real day out. But I don't think that happens now. I don't think people tend to get together in a little group of I think women know it's a more of a um without being sexist, it's more of a a ladies' thing, um, to go shopping in groups and and spend the day out. I don't think that happens.
SPEAKER_06You're right, MS Redhill, it it got quite a lot of mentions there. Um also Wilco, home base, Debonums, they're up there. Um, some strange ones, CNN Cycles popped up, and apparently they're still trading, but they do more clothing out of the area now. So CNN Cycles, uh the bicycle shop, Gamlers, the toy shop that was in there as well, BHS Little Woods, Russell and Bromley. Um, some of these I don't know, Tuzzy and Muzzy. He scrints did a lot missing Tuzzy and Muzzy. Um, so fascinating. But the biggest themes were around nostalgia, emotional attachment to these things, uh, which is what we've been saying earlier as well. Convenience shopping, practical retail, and there is a frustration with parking, particularly councils and the mix of shops in the high street as well. James, to your point with the vape shops. So let's just have a little look here. What would get you back to the high street more? Um, in at number one was a better variety of shops, free and easier parking, uh, longer um trading on a Sunday, more clothing and shoe shops. So maybe, Jack, there is a cause for more clothes and shoe shops, whether they'll be successful or not, is they the issues I found with um clothes shops is that you go and they just don't have your size.
SPEAKER_01So I was in London recently trying to buy some clothes and they had to go to four different shops of the same chain who weren't answering their phone, but it was the easiest way to do it, I thought, was to go in person. And just the stock levels aren't there, they they don't want to encourage people to go in person because it's much better for their business model to sell stuff online.
SPEAKER_04The reason they don't have it all in, because I'm the same, so I'm six foot, so I have to have the tall range, and none of the shops that sell tall clothes actually stock the tall range in the shop. And the reason they do that is because obviously the shop front requires business rates and staff and stock rooms, and they can't have that much stock in each shop because they need to change uh they need to change the stock so frequently to try and keep up with the fast fashion. So they don't want any of the niche and the smaller, you know, the petite ranges or the tall ranges or the plus size ranges, they don't keep them in the shops.
SPEAKER_01Moses are folks who are too tall. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_06Do shop owners
Pedestrianisation Banks And The Genie
SPEAKER_06need to take heed and adapt, pivot, do something different, or do we think people may go back to the high street if there was more parking, if there was more incentive, if the council's got their idea together, if the rates was there? Do we think hands up if we think the high street can be rescued in the way that we remember it and it's known? Hands up? No one's hands up here. Sammy, how about you? You're online, Sammy?
SPEAKER_02Um I'm afraid I don't see it.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's the same here. No one here in the room's got their hand up.
SPEAKER_08There was a thing that I was talking to someone about the other day saying that if we pedestrianised more sort of high street areas and had more of an outdoor um, you know, some market stalls and some cafes and that sort of thing, and and had sort of more like they'd have in Europe, would that be a help? But the thing that I miss in uh when I go out shopping is the banks. I really think that the demise of the of the high street bank has been a really bad thing for the high street.
SPEAKER_01If if I may, I I do love the idea of pedestrianising high streets and the sort of um central, sort of European, on the continent, vibe of uh sitting down and having a drink. But we're we're currently on the high street in Crawley and they pedestrianise that. And when it happens, I mean I was too young to even know, or if that might have been older than I am, but I would have been pro it. It has absolutely killed this high street off. It is it is nowhere near as busy as it used to be, and it used to be a very slim single file pavement, and it was very, very busy, and it just doesn't always work where you're gonna have the businesses. They might put some tables out, but it's two or three. The most popular place is weatherspoons, and that's the only place keeping it alive. Um, so as much as I But why is that?
SPEAKER_06Is it because Weatherspoons is cheap?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Uh but businesses, in terms of the sort of larger concept, we have to um councils have to play their part, which they just are not, but also we have to be able to be competitive and businesses have to be competitive. At the moment, there's no chance of them being competitive because of the business rates because of the parking, so it's it's impossible for them.
SPEAKER_12Yeah, I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle. I'm not gonna walk up and down somewhere looking for the right adapter for my new Samsung tablet that I bought online yesterday. I'm just not. I'm just gonna press a button and have some guy bring it to me. And you know, I remember um actually Maureen's husband saying years ago with pubs and with uh you know, you're competing with people's homes. So when the high streets were thriving in the in the 70s and 80s, we didn't have so much at home. Now we've got everything. We have uh the the internet, films, whatever. We can get we can have food delivered to our homes, we can we can call up a movie, we can play, I don't know, we could play a game with somebody the other side of the world. So to get people out of their homes, you're really having to offer something special. And so people will come into High Street to get their hair cut, to get their nails done, to get their dog groomed, or to meet people in a social setting. So there's got to be something, some sort of activity to get people out of their homes. I don't think you can put the the genie back in the bottle, I just don't.
SPEAKER_06And when you run your shop in Rygate High Street, uh what sort of personal sacrifice of what what became crystal clear that you thought that I gotta shut this for good? What what what was the tipping point?
SPEAKER_12We were making plenty of money until COVID. We reopened after COVID, and of course, during COVID, you couldn't do anything. There were no auctions, there were no car boots, and um, which is where I got most of my stuff from. And people have come into my shop and look around and saying, Oh, you haven't got anything new in here. And so um, so then I just thought, well, I could start it all up again, go herring around round the county looking for things, or you know, I just decided to surrender the lease, pay the money, pay the fees, get it out of it. Yeah, um yeah, it wasn't it, you know. I've often heard people saying they're taking money but they're not making money. And there's a lot of people running businesses that are actually on a minimum wage and they're putting their heart and soul into it. They love their customers, they love their craft, but they're taking money, but they're not making money.
SPEAKER_04For me, it's the opposite. Um, and as I said earlier, it it it makes no business sense for me to be on the on the high street because it's more expensive and I'd make a lot more money from book grooming at home. Um, for me, being on the high street, it's about being on the high street. I am one of those services that you do bring your dog in and your dog will be with me for an hour and a half. Is that long enough to go all the way home again? Probably not. So, what do you do? You nip next door and you go and have a coffee, or you go around the corner and you or you go across the road, or you, you know, you're going to go and have a look around the shop. So for me, I I love my community and I love being part of the village, and so I love the fact that actually I'm helping all of those other little shops in my own little way um to stay alive. I think in you know, you ask the question, can we get back? Can we rebuild the high street? I think we can, um, but there needs to be quality, and people will make the effort for quality, people will come out and they will go shopping if they want a sofa because they'll look online and they'll go, Oh yeah, I know, but I want to sit on it. They want to they want to buy a pair of shoes, they want to try them on. And I think it almost we haven't hit the bottom yet. I think we're getting there with Timu and and Sheehan and all of those things where you're coming over and you're ordering a blaze only.
SPEAKER_06It's almost gonna it's gonna be flux, it's almost gonna go too far one way, and then as the as we're hearing from the public, they want the brand stores back. James, you made the point's been made around that and Michelle. You're saying the same, but privately for your business, you're happy you found your niche and what you're doing, basically.
SPEAKER_04Yeah,
Local Business Shout-Outs And Community
SPEAKER_04and I I'm very lucky that I I'm I'm in I mean I'm in Lingfield, so it's a bit it's a it's a well let's give a shout out to your business.
SPEAKER_06Sammy gets her dog, uh W. So give a quick shout out to your business so that we can support them.
SPEAKER_04No, I I'm I'm only dogs, I'm on the high street in Lingfield, and as I say, Lingfield is such an interesting village because it's a real, real mix of diversity because we have such a lot of affluence there, and yet again, on the opposite side of the coin, we've got people that have no money at all. Um, and it's a it's I love that about the village because it is a small, quaint little village, but it's very, very different.
SPEAKER_06So a big shout out to the whole of Lingfield, not just your business, I like the way you did that. Uh yeah, the whole of Lingfield and dog grooming there. Sammy, um, do you want to tell us a little bit about your business and give us a shout out for what you do as well?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Um, obviously, we're based in Godston. Um, really need the extra support right now um for all of us guys. Uh, the Hare and Hounds, the old Forge, the Emporium, DD Services, where you can get your car looking brand new, um, Star Barbers. Oh, oh, Godston Farm, of course. I've got so many friends in the community that we've actually been brought so close together since the whole collapse. And it has actually been really lovely to get to know these people and become more of a community.
SPEAKER_06You've definitely become a tight and knit community because of that whopping great big sinkhole you have. Yeah. Um, so that's like an extra dimension, despite what we're seeing, the underlying trends with people moving away from local businesses and the commercial high street. Um, so well done, you and good shout out for the whole of Godstone. Um and your particular business, give your business a shout.
SPEAKER_02Oh, Blossom's Godston, brunch and coffee.
SPEAKER_06There we go. Very uh community vibe. Uh, our very own Maureen, Maureen, uh, the pub, do you want to mention?
SPEAKER_03That's the Red Lion and Cellar Room at Betchworth.
SPEAKER_06And we've done a couple of episodes from there. We love that place. Very good. We're gonna go back there again soon. Uh Georgie, did you want to give your nail? Yeah, it's Georgie Lucas Nails.
SPEAKER_08It's uh very simple.
SPEAKER_06Uh Notfield. There we go. We would be amiss for not mentioning these local businesses. Any other any other surprises from the Facebook uh responses before we move on?
SPEAKER_07One thing that surprises me is nostalgia and emotional attachment. I can't really get my head around how can one get emotionally attached to a shop, but fair enough. Ye do you. Uh what I could have like a brand.
SPEAKER_06Don't you have like a brand affinity, one one thing you feel warmer towards?
SPEAKER_07I'm not loyal at all.
SPEAKER_06No, we've Gab, we've I don't know, we've sort of picked up on this theme across the uh across the episode, maybe.
SPEAKER_07There will be no loyalty in me. One thing I can say is that I do make a point to uh support my local businesses. Um but I don't know about um you guys. We come from different places. Um Dorking High Street isn't opened very long. The the opening hours simply don't suit me, and perhaps they don't suit many other peoples who just like myself commute to and from London.
SPEAKER_06I don't know. The way I've I've always thought of dorking is is a place for lots of quirky, antique y type shops. Is that correct or is that wrong?
SPEAKER_07It is correct, it is correct. And while these shops are lovely, yes, we have antiques, we have antique furniture, we have uh old knick-knacks, so probably something similar to what uh Jackie had. Um we had you know bespoke um furniture makers and so on. That's not the thing that you would go to every weekend. Absolutely not. It's a special one-off um one-off purchase once a year or once every six months.
SPEAKER_06But you're lucky to have Ryegate, Ryegate just down the road. There's lots of nice restaurants there. Red Hill, I think it is a little bit like Crawley, maybe, will we agree? Is that is that similar? Horsham sort of posh, slightly poshen, maybe. Is this just Clive's perception? East Greek.
SPEAKER_01I think Crawley's poshen, too, to be honest. I think Crawley's uh I think Horsham being posh is the uh perception Horsham likes to give. Exactly. Crawley uh Horsham might pretend they're the posh the posh end. No, Crawley's third. So Crawley, you're saying Crawley is uh higher.
SPEAKER_06Really? He's Grinted though, it's kind of functional, isn't it? He's Grinted's sort of got some charm and it's functional.
SPEAKER_07We're gonna get we're gonna get kicked back from the thing that uh the thing that you've mentioned that oh dorking is that, but you've got Rygate, you've got Horsham and so on. Does that not defy the purpose of shopping local? Because yes, I'm from Dorking. I can go to Horsham, sure. But should I have to do that? And this is what it was.
SPEAKER_06There needs to be a bigger mix. There needs to be a bigger mix. Um uh if we could have the good of Rygate, Horsham, Dorking in Crawley, we'll all be delighted, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon, I guess.
SPEAKER_07It's probably also down to the stock provision, and by stock I just mean available buildings to set up shop because um, as far as I'm aware, there is no place large enough in Dorking to, for instance, accommodate a Primark, even though probably local teams would love a Primark.
SPEAKER_01Don't worry, we've got about 20 places that can accommodate Primark.
SPEAKER_07But you already have Primark.
SPEAKER_01That's never enough.
SPEAKER_06Big tick in the box. Uh there we go. Now listen, let's have one reason to be hopeful.
Reasons For Hope On The High Street
SPEAKER_06We're gonna start wrapping this up. Let's have one reason to be hopeful. James, let's start with you.
SPEAKER_01Uh I think there's an increasing community spirit as we've realized um the negativity of shopping online, uh, people. Will look for more community uh spirited shopping.
SPEAKER_06What would you like to see happen with business rates and how we treat local businesses well? If you were Prime Minister because I think I think in a few years' time, James. Absolutely. If you were Prime Minister, what would you think?
SPEAKER_01So in terms of crawling, we speak to local businesses all the time who are struggling massively under the mix of Conservative ag uh Labour leadership on this road. We have people who are complaining who are really worried, and also in the parades, which are uh controlled by the council. Um what they need to do is they need to stop increasing them. We've heard reports of rents being increased by double digits, which is horrific because of the poor spending by the council.
SPEAKER_06Right, let's continue. One hope. Uh Sammy, you're next.
SPEAKER_02Um I just hope that people continue to support the little guys because we need you to.
SPEAKER_06And for you, maybe not go to the big chain coffee shops that we all know, but making that choice to just walk around the corner and go to an independent shop.
SPEAKER_02There's many around. You've got so many in Catram, so many. Well, there's a couple in Godstone, you've got them in there's so many in Red Hill, there's a lovely one in Red Hill. I can't remember the name of it, but they do a lovely coffee. I think you'll find like your coffee tastes, and I can pretty much guarantee this a hundred times better.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's a good takeaway for all of us. Uh in Roygate, there's a couple, in Crawley, uh, there's one independent that's quite like just up just up the road from where we sat here in the Worldwood, actually.
SPEAKER_01At Crow Cafe, yeah, absolutely. Exactly. He's he's been fighting passionately against the council for local businesses. He's a really good folk locally.
SPEAKER_02Um, so yeah, let's all give uh and I think as well, just quickly, the more you support support these little coffee chains, like the little independents, the more you kind of build a rapport with these people. Like you've just said, James, who's like become quite friendly with someone who owns a little coffee shop, like you become friends. Like I I have so many locals who I'm now friends with. I think you build such a nice relationship with people because you you're not just rushed and sat down and you know, you actually speak and you get to know people, and I think it's just such a lovely thing, and I I think more people should feel inclined to want to do that, especially to move away from social media and spend more time face to face, connecting. I mean, we don't have much signal in Godson, so you won't get bothered.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, funny. That's the other problem you have in Godson. Uh so let's just continue the hopes. Anyone else got a hope for the future? Abby?
SPEAKER_11Yeah, so um I spend a lot of time guest lecturing in universities of all actually different political persuasions, from sort of art schools to more typically conservative areas that do actually exist in university. They're harder to find, but you can find them. All of them actually have this idea of going against the online sort of culture. It seems like my generation have grown up with the love of Amazon, and I'll put my hand up, use it far too much. The generation below me are actually more switching off to the online culture, and I'm hopeful that if we can harness that, that we can get better at getting people locally.
SPEAKER_06Do we think that's gonna happen? Do we think that's achievable within reach? I think it is Georgie's taking ahead next to you, but I think it is.
SPEAKER_11I think there there's a bigger issue around costs. Of course, at the moment, with the likes of Temu and showing it's it's near impossible to compete, if not impossible. I'm not sure they're gonna be around forever. I do think we will go too far and come back to sort of better quality and that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_06And that seemed to back what Michelle was saying that that people are gonna get fed up of cheap and cheerful and quick, and we'll want quality goods again, maybe the shopping trends will change. Um, any other thoughts, any other hopes before we wrap this up?
SPEAKER_08I really hope that that does happen because um a couple of years ago one of my my daughter was was going away with a group of girlfriends and um they were talking about luckily she wasn't actually, but one of her friends was talking about buying a whole new wardrobe for the holiday and then just leaving everything there. Not flying back with any of the clothing because she'd have worn it on holiday and just one-time use. Literally disposable clothing. Wow. And that just terrified me. I just thought, if we've become that world, then you know it's we're going to hell in a hand cart, aren't we?
SPEAKER_06I've often thought about that with a dirty saucepur, is it is it were, but not with clothes.
SPEAKER_07I'm very, very hopeful we're not going to end up like that. I'm personally pretty allergic to fast fashion. I prefer to buy quality and buy once every decade and you know, wear it to death. And I do hope the younger generation actually wakes up and realises that wearing cheap plastic isn't even good for you.
SPEAKER_06When you say younger generation, what what sort of age group is that, just to be clear?
SPEAKER_07I'd say 16 to mid-20s.
SPEAKER_06I also think the younger generation are more cost conscious, they're more thoughtful about sustainability. And I know when we did that cost of living episode uh and we did that little joke about sale by dates and yogurts, that was quite funny. Um, because also you you would eat, you know, and and and not throw away things, so you like quality, but also uh you will stretch it in terms of yogurts and that kind of thing. I say stretch it in terms of white.
SPEAKER_07Well, yeah, a month is a stretch, but uh you are absolutely right. I don't throw out if it's not necessary to throw out.
SPEAKER_06I prefer I think the younger generation are behind that, right? They're behind that sustainability thinking about the planet, buying quality, buying less often. So interesting that some are not, some are quite plastic and quite quite cheap, right?
SPEAKER_12I think people often complain about the number of charity shops in the high street, but I buy 95-97% of my clothes from charity shops and my shoes, and um I think that's great. And certainly when I had my shop, we had a lot of um I had concessions within the shop, a lot of them sold, we could call it vintage, we could call it secondhand, pre-loved, I think, pre-loved clothing, and that was very, very popular with young people. We had a lot of customers from Myingate College. So I think that the high street will thrive if it's providing a service, and that service could be good coffee. I would rather die than buy a coffee from Costa or Starbucks. I always go to an independent just because it's better and just out of principle. And it's the same with with you know circular fashion. I think um the points about fast fashion have been made, and it's really quite distasteful to me.
SPEAKER_06I mean, you look at St. Catharine's Hospice, they've just launched that flagship store a couple of months ago in the centre of Crawley, taking the place of what was a brand store, and and they're doing tremendously well. I mean, it's for a great cause, St. Catherine's Hospice, and they've got lots of stuff, including sofas, Georgie.
SPEAKER_03Well the charity shops are um they're also finding it very hard because not only are rents going up, they're finding that. Um I'm not the one the Oxford shop I work in is in Banstead, and there's like a wealth of there's been a wealth of charity shops in that town. And it's actually brought people in from Wallington, they come there on the bus because they do a tour of the charity shop. But two have closed down in the last few months um because of higher rents. And also the charity shops are starting to start sell stuff online, and they're finding that a cheaper modlock. Fam's got a huge online presence now.
SPEAKER_12Charity shops can't make money, and their stuff is donated, and their staff are volunteers. That tells you everything. Well, exactly. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_03And also they're up against vintage. People are starting to realise they can sell their stuff.
SPEAKER_06So I I'm sorry if there's any shop owners listening to this and you're selling clothes. The you know, we do feel it's coming back. Quality goods is coming back, but in time.
Practical Ways To Support Local Traders
SPEAKER_06The takeaways, so so there's some positive outcomes for listeners in this. Maybe choose an independent coffee shop instead of a brand. That's number one. Number two, think about going to a charity shop because they've got good quality stuff that's reasonably new where it didn't fit someone. Largely, it's a lot of new stuff there. What other key positive takeaways are there?
SPEAKER_04Uh I think the positive is the is the next generation. I think that the younger generations are a lot more sustainable-minded. They are looking for uh, you know, they're a lot more socially minded and a lot more eco-aware. So they don't want to be fast-fashioned, they don't want to see all this, you know, stockpiling of polyester rubbish. Um, but also social media, the isolation and uh mental health crisis that we are in in the country is largely because we rely so much on social media and um as much as online shopping is at home on your own, actually going out into your local independent store, exactly as Sammy was saying, you get to have a conversation with somebody. If you go into McDonald's and the person passes you your fries and off you go, you don't even say hello. Whereas actually, if you go into Sammy's restaurant and you go and you sit down with a muffin and a coffee, she'll come and have a chat with you. And that's that that human interaction I think actually most of us are craving nowadays because we just don't get it. So I think we're kind of we're we're deep diving into the point where actually we will bounce back as a society because we will start craving the community that we've kind of ignored for the last couple of decades.
SPEAKER_08I think that um Michelle, you raised a very good point and Jackie too about the having a service on the high street. I think that's really key because as you said, you know, people have their don't leave their dog with you and then they've got an hour and a half clear. Um it's almost like dropping your children off, isn't it? You can get you've got an hour and a half to yourself, um, and you can do some browsing. I think it's browsing that doesn't happen now. I don't have a I don't have time to browse. I I shop with an elderly friend, I take her to the to Rygate High Street every Friday morning. We have a half an hour window where we can park because we want to park near the shop because we're carrying shopping. Uh so we have half an hour window and there's no browsing time. We go in, we're like exaset missiles, we're just you know, get exactly what we need, bang it in the car and off we go. I know that she, as an elderly person who doesn't actually have a lot of communication with other people in her week, would love to be able to wander into a shop, have a chat, have a browse, and she would buy. I know she would buy. So actually, they're kicking themselves in the foot by by not allowing parking to be a bit more flexible because I think we don't then make time to to have a look and see what we couldn't be tempted by.
SPEAKER_06Especially free parking. Uh everything comes with the price now. I mean, there was a day you could park in most places or find somewhere to park for free. Those days are gone. You're more worried about whether you're gonna get a fine because you've missed some sort of sign or something and a hundred pounds. Um I've never been one to browse shops, I have to say. I'm very much in and then out, but yeah, I I get it. I have to say, Sammy, thank you so much for joining this session. Also, Michelle, uh, thank you for giving your insights and your perspective as well for your local businesses. And it's been a bit of a busy one uh because we've got James Tidey, Jack Inwood, Maureen Jones, Abby Chapman Miller, Georgie Lucas, Aggar S. Michaela Leal, and Magdalena Rachman. Rachman and Magdalena Rachman. Thank you very much. That is Sussex and Surrey soapbox. Do follow
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