Homelessness (Part 2): Breaking the Cycle - Real Paths Out

In this Homelessness Part 2 episode, we continue the conversation with Ian Wilkins, Crawley Open House and Michelle Harfield, Turning Tides to explore what truly helps people move beyond homelessness—and why simply offering a roof, without long-term support, can sometimes do more harm than good.

Together, we unpack homelessness as a complex, non-linear journey—more “snakes and ladders” than straight path—and examine the structural and human realities that shape it. From the shortage of affordable housing to the unintended consequences of the benefits system, we look at why escaping homelessness is often far more difficult than it appears.

We discuss why stable accommodation must be paired with tenancy sustainment, life skills, and meaningful relationships; how digital exclusion and poor-quality temporary housing create additional barriers; and why models like Housing First—bringing support directly into the home—are proving transformative.

The conversation also explores harm reduction, addiction recovery, and the realities of relapse, including Iqbal’s powerful lived experience of addiction, prison, and recovery with the support of a Naltrexone implant. Along the way, we challenge the idea that people can simply be “fixed,” and instead highlight the importance of long-term, person-centred support.

We also look at innovative approaches like Skywaves in Worthing, where self-contained flats are paired with 24/7 support, and reflect on the critical role of employment, purpose, and positive relationships in rebuilding lives.

Finally, we turn to what members of the public can do—offering practical, thoughtful ways to help that protect dignity and increase safety. From small acts of kindness to using tools like StreetLink to connect people with outreach teams, we explore how compassion, when paired with understanding, can make a real difference.

We also share ways to support organisations like Turning Tides and Crawley Open House through donations, volunteering, and community involvement.

Roundtable Featuring:  Special Guests - Michelle Harfield (Turning Tides), Ian Wilkins (Crawley Open House), Iqbal Khan, Aga Es, Maureen Jones & Micaela Leal Host: Clive Hilton. 

Please click on 'Send a text' above & join our Facebook group to share your perspective and suggestions for future topics - Thank you for your interest! Clive.

Transcript

Welcome And Why It’s Complex

SPEAKER_11 0:00

Welcome to the Sysixon Series. Real viewpoints, real opinions, and a balanced conversation on the community issues.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

So we are talking about homelessness. We've talked about how people get into homelessness, all the complexity around that, and that's not a straight line, and that it can happen to anyone. And that we're all humans. Um I quite like the phrase, we're all in a bit of a muddle in our own ways, and some people find that they're without a home and homelessness. We've got Ian from Crawley Open House, also Michelle from Turning Tides. And now we're going to get into what happens when people are homeless, what services you provide, and the best ways to help people escape homelessness and some of the challenges, because equally, just as it's not a straight line getting into the situation of homelessness, it's certainly not a straight line getting out. Snakes and ladders, three steps forward, two steps back, and we're going to get into all of that right now. And of course, our very own Igbal Khan, having gone through a period of that in life, it would be good to bring that to the table too. So, where do we get started with this?

Housing Plus Real-Life Support

SPEAKER_06 1:08

Where I would start is the system says that if you give someone a house or a roof over their head, job done. Tick in a box, job done. And I think one of the biggest challenges Britain has got is we're not bad at accommodating people. Most all those people in temporary accommodation, but it's the support stuff that's missing. So where we've had success, we've got two workers who all they do is when we put someone in a flat in Broadfield on their own, they have a worker who works with them for as long as is necessary to keep them in that tenancy or or in that home. And so helping with paperwork, helping with neighbours, helping with money, helping with life skills, helping with cooking, helping with decorating the place in the first place, all that good stuff. Because if you just dump someone in a little flat, the number of times I've heard someone say, Do you know what? I was I was happier in my tent in Tilgh Park because I didn't have responsibility, I didn't have neighbours banging on the wall, I didn't have bills to pay, you know, and so you have to be the system is a bit of a blunt instrument, and I think to help people when they get their accommodation, and and and that's the bit, and and people find that in all sorts of different ways. Good neighbours, good friends, churches, places of worship, you know, all these places can help people stay in their homes. And so that's how, for me, one of the big things that's lacking, if we used to put someone in a housing development, there'd be a tenancy support worker 20 years ago. So if we put someone in, I don't know, the Guinness Trust big place in Crawley, there'd be three or four tenancy support workers. So if someone was going through a tough time, there was a worker on site to help you. They've all gone. They were all scrapped 15 years ago because they were too expensive. And so you there's a real danger that you plonk someone in a in a flat and expect them to thrive without that wraparound skill. And without the life skill, you know, we teach people how to cook, we teach people how to budget, we teach people how to mend bikes, we teach people how to use barista machines. And the reason we're doing that is because they're all transferable skills, you know, and if you can teach someone all that stuff and they find out that it's actually quite fun and empowering and good for their confidence, when they get their tenancy, they're not starting from scratch because they know how to make spaghetti bolognese, because we did it at Open House. So that is for me, it's just as important as putting a roof over someone's head, vital as that is. And and that's what we have to be better at creating that arm round the shoulder that says, let's make this tenancy a success. You know, how are we going to help you keep that tenancy? So many people, you put them in a tenancy, two years later, they've come out of it for one reason or another, and they're back in the cycle of homelessness. So I think my if I was Prime Minister, masses of more help on the front line for people to keep from becoming homeless again. Do you know what I mean? Thank you, Ian.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I think as well is that you know, people do underestimate how much your life skills change when you become homeless. So if you think about it in terms of if you think about you know where where we all are, we've got you know we've got really good levels of literacy, we've got access to digital services, you know, especially post-COVID, let's look at how many services are now online. It's you know, the these this is highly exclusionary to other other people. So just putting a roof over the head isn't enough. We've often got to reteach people skills that we take for advantage advantage because when you become homeless, you don't necessarily like I said earlier, you're fighting for your survival, and that's a different set of skills. You're not thinking about cooking a meal, you may not even have the facilities to cook a meal for several years. A lot of temporary accommodations only really provide a microwave. I've been into one temporary accommodation, I won't be naming names, so I'm hoping that it's but they had one microwave between 16 people in there, and it was probably one of the most dismal experiences of my life. Every time the council said to me, Oh, we're gonna put so and so in there. No, no, please don't.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Not that place with the microwave.

Housing First And Social Housing

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, with a single microwave for 14 people. So, you know, it's like you were, you know, the tenancy sustainment element is just not there. Now, turning tides, we have um housing first. Now, housing first runs on this principle that um you shouldn't need to, you know, housing shouldn't be a reward. And it it started in America, it's an American concept. We've run it for 16 um for six years, sorry, to really, really high success. Um and essentially what this is is we are actually putting people into their own tenancies um across South West Sussex, um, but then they have a support, a dedicated support worker that pretty much stays with them until um you know until you know they're ready to move on. And it's about bringing services to people. So um there's a also an old um there's an old um sort of process called making every adult matter meme. And what that was about is about bringing services to people rather than forcing people to go to services that are largely really difficult to reach. Yeah, um, and housing first brings that principle into in um you know into people's homes and debts debt services to the people where they need to be, so that they then build up the confidence and starting to make sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Otherwise, it's tough to navigate the system, and that does seem to be a recipe for success. What what would you do? What one thing, Michelle, if you had the wand and you were Prime Minister, what one thing would you do?

SPEAKER_00 6:55

What to make getting out of homeless easier?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah, to make all of this go away as best we can.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Well, I mean, firstly, I'd um probably put an end to to um buying social housing if you buying social housing is one of the most critical reasons that our housing stock has is depleted as badly. I actually bought this from Crisis.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Um, you don't have to stick to one. If you've got a couple of others on the list here, what what what would be what would be number two in the case?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

What I'm gonna say is is that in in 2024 to 25, 16,291 social houses were either sold or demolished last year um in that period, whereas just over 10,807 were built to replace that. Uh, crisis believes that you know we actually need to be building about 90,000 social houses houses to absolutely eliminate the homelessness, um, homelessness concerns. Um, and that's where I would start. We we build social housing, uh, we we build it well.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

There we go. Vote for Michelle.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Um, I think we need to vote for Ian and then I'll be his kind of thing that you stay.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

We could create a party. Let's just create a new party. Um, but yeah, um it's funny, isn't it? People that end up in these positions of power, i i if if they had some of this thinking, some of this compassion, I wonder if they would make slightly different decisions that are a bit more longer term. But that's my personal view. Ian?

SPEAKER_06 8:30

I think the other frustration, and this might sound a bit counterintuitive, but it's really hard to get people into work because of the benefit system. So I've taken several people to interviews at jobs, and they would be worse off taking that job than staying on their benefits, and so obviously they don't do it. And I think that there needs to be an overhaul of the transition into low-paid work, and you're effective, you know, give them a mini golden hello. You know, if someone's actually gonna take a job at Tufnell's parcel company in Crawley and work at Shift, then give them an incentive to do that rather than a disincentive.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

That is changing this year.

SPEAKER_06 9:13

Is it?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, they're changing the um they're changing the point at which um the deductions happen through income when somebody's in supported accommodation.

SPEAKER_06 9:24

Because the the what happens at the moment is all the risk is on the person taking the job. So if you take a job, you go off your benefits, and then for some reason or other that job doesn't work out, there's a there's a gap. We see people every day stuff struggling with that gap to get back on benefits. It takes several weeks to get you back on your benefits. And so people go, people are risk-averse. They say, No, I'm not gonna bother. And we've uh we've got some brilliant employers in Crawley willing to take people who are willing to take jobs, but financially it just doesn't work out. How frustrating, massively frustrating, and we say to people, look, it's not just about the money, you know, you'll feel better in yourself, it's purpose, it's eating better, sleeping better, meeting people. But if at the end of the day you're gonna be worse off, why would you do that? And so there's something around, I believe the things when I look at the people who've successfully clambered out of homelessness that I know of, two things jobs and positive relationships. So I know a couple of guys who've met the right person, doesn't have to be romantic, it could be mates or whatever, but sometimes it's romantic. And if you've got a positive person by your side to fight life at, makes a massive difference. And the people we've got into work because they have managed to find something, what a difference, you know. We got a job, a guy, a job on a building site recently, and he's a different bloke. He's still a bit of a pain in the neck, but he's a pain in the neck with a job on a building site, and they love him, and he loves it. And he's now living with some of the guys in a shared house who work on a building site. That's how you end homelessness. He's getting him to work for them and and having a purpose every day. And he says, Oh, you'll still have a drink at the weekend or something. Brilliant, do what you like. But he's now got a job and he fills his time. So I think jobs And that must be rewarding.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

I mean, obviously, it's frustrating with the snakes and ladders and seeing people and helping people, but so many people, both of you, Michelle and Ian, you know, have helped through this. It must be rewarding to see the other side that maybe when they come back and visit and give donations and help, and knowing that they've been through that must be it must be an incredible feeling.

SPEAKER_06 11:35

You don't know most of them, most of them disappear, and you don't quite know what's happened, to be honest. And you wonder sometimes what happened to so-and-so. But yeah, we do see people, I'm bumping to people around town, who say, Oh yeah, ten years ago I lived in open house, and if it hadn't been for open house, I'd probably be dead.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

That's a bit like Ickbell.

Skywaves And 24-7 Support

SPEAKER_06 11:52

And and so, yeah, we need more places like Open House and Turning Tides, rather, not less. Britain's lost half its homeless short of beds since 2008.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

People who experience homelessness experience a lot of shame and uh uh uh feel that they don't deserve are not worthy of of receiving when it does happen. And when we when we opened our new project, our newest project, which is Skywaves down in Worthing, um I was involved in a lot of those move-ins um because I was still on the front line at that point.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

And just talk to us about that project in Worthing. So we know.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Skywaves is actually quite revolutionary. Uh we believe it's the first in the country. The council believe it's the first in the country. We worked with Turning Tides worked with Adrian Worthing Council and Worthing Homes, which is our main social housing provider. We've built, we have built a brand new building um um in Broadwater. It has um all of the um flats inside, they are actual self-contained one-bedroom flats, but it comes with 24-7 supported. So our staff are there 24-7. It's one of our harm reduction um projects. Um the intention is to move people towards being actually tenancy ready. But they have their they essentially have their own homes. This is an actual flat, and they they are really quite spacious um for kitchen, and we provide um sort of all the utensils or the all the furniture, all the all the bedding and stuff, so they don't have to worry about that cost of moving in.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

So it's but they've got that 24-hour support there as a kind of warden type thing, as a stepping stone to them.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yes. Yeah, um, and you know, um, one of the main criteria of that is that um to be eligible to be housed there, you have to have experienced um rough sleeping. So it is specifically designed to support people who have struggle. We see a lot of people struggle in sh shared in temporary accommodation, they quite often only have a um a room, they may have an odd suite bathroom, but sh there's always some form of shared facilities. And that's really difficult. I mean, I I personally can't imagine sharing a house with people that willingly want to share a house with me, let alone, you know, in that circumstance. So by providing these sort of by providing like the self-contained sort of they can they can keep to themselves, they can, you know, they don't have to be going out and sharing facilities with people that maybe they have contentious relationships with. And we are seeing that, you know, our our clients are staying there. The primary reason that um tenancies end at the moment have been through people returning back to prison as opposed to being being evicted for any other reason. And the only reason that a prison um sentence is triggering that is that um there is a period that housing benefit will still be paid for a prison sentence um sentence, about 16 or 17 weeks off the top of my head. I may be slightly wrong about that.

Relapse, Addiction, And The Long Game

SPEAKER_02 14:57

But once the sentence goes over that, unfortunately the tenancy has to uh has to be brought to a close because there's nowhere to fund the room, which I know sounds a bit and this this links back to not a straight path um we were talking earlier about you know going back to prison out on the streets again, and you might come three, seven times back to the facility. Um what about the other end of the spectrum where perhaps you know you put lots of effort into helping an individual and then they refuse it, they say, Well, you know, no thank you.

SPEAKER_06 15:34

We talk about playing a long game and and and and by that you probably mean five years, three years, five years. So within that in the short term, people will relapse and go backwards and go sideways, and and and you have to look over we we're kind of we're taught to yeah, look longer than that.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Not the short term, so I quite like the snakes and ladders analogy. So you give the ladders, there might be some snakes along the way, but overall help them long long term.

SPEAKER_06 16:06

And at the end of the day, you soon realise you can't fix people. Do you know what I mean? And and our job is not to fix people. And I think some of us go into it hoping that you can fix people, but you soon learn you can't. And and all you can do is create an environment, as I said earlier, where it is more likely that they're gonna prosper themselves, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

And this is the difficulty with addictions. I mean, I suffer with chocolate, let alone trying to change anyone else. If only I could eat less chocolate. I mean, that's that's a simple I joke about addiction, but if we if we bring it Igbel in, uh, your journey through this, you were out of the crawley open house, you had addictions. How how did you escape that? What what was your story, if you don't mind, Sherry?

SPEAKER_10 16:46

I used to use prison as rehab, so I would be in my madness, and then when it would get too much, I would just start doing dumb things just to get sent to prison. Because I know when I go to jail, I'm gonna I'm gonna withdraw. I don't go on methadone, I didn't go on methadone, I would just go in my cell, withdraw it out, use whatever drugs I can get on the wing to try to help me cope. Spice, cannabis, um, and then I would get my health back. So you did treat it like a rehab. A bit of a structured safety, you're forced to get better. I know it sounds crazy, but I actually tell some people that I know, like you know, who are on the streets, and I say to them, Listen, to get into rehab is a long process. To get to prison is quite easy. And I I know you're laughing, but it's uh because it's it's the it's the cure I knew. So I told him, so look, I got a power in there now. I like he was he was in his madness with cocaine for quite a while, and he had a few cases. I've gone to him, I said, listen, tell them take your bail away and go jail.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

I wonder why the prison system's creaking, because people are using it for rehab.

SPEAKER_10 17:58

Um I I no no, I was one of the few, but uh the prison system's creaking because they'd I think most of it has got to do with mental health. Like when I first went down to prison, uh when I first met it was 2006, there wasn't a massive influx of mental health patients. I don't think there was any. I can't remember anyone off the top of my head back then who was nuts on the wing. But come, I don't know, 2014. Yeah, you got people banging on their doors all day. God, like you yeah, you see it, and the the officers on the.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

So how it's a vicious circle. How how did you escape? I mean, obviously, we're we're we're all I quite like the word, we're all in a bit of a muddle and and there's no clear cut that you know there isn't but so my my thing is a bit unique.

SPEAKER_10 18:42

I got uh we found a thing called Naltrexone. It's an implant, which is an opiate blocker, it's a heroin blocker, uh, which I was getting in London at first. So I got the day I got released from prison, I went so what I usually do, so so people understand, so I would go to prison, do the withdrawals, get off the drugs, train every day, get my weight up, come out looking looking amazing, and the first thing I would do is I'll go straight to the crackhouse. Okay straight away.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

And it would be a pattern.

SPEAKER_10 19:13

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not just for me, it's many people in this situation, like who I know. This is the normal Michelle and Ian are nodding violently with this as well. So I would get off at Crawley train station, right? I'd get off at the back of the train station, I knew exactly where the crackhouse was, and that's where I'd go away straight away with my my grant. This was something I'd done all the time, and then we found Naltrexone, and the day I got out, my dad picked me up, I went straight to London, got the Naltrexone implant, which is an opiate blocker. Okay, so you can't actually use it's it's just like you won't get no effects of it. Is and that's how I got my life back. I ended up getting that for like two years. Got it, I've had like three implants over the like over that period. I even flew to Serbia to get one because it was so much cheaper. But it changed my life.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

That's an experience going to Serbia. I've been there, I've been to Serbia a few years.

SPEAKER_10 20:06

I love Serbia, I think it's an amazing country, beautiful, food's good, weather's lovely. But yeah, the problem I was saying to Ian earlier, there's no money in cure.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

So, anyone listening to this that that is struggling and is finding the repeating patterns. Um, what message would you say to them, Ik Bell?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Go to Serbia, probably.

SPEAKER_10 20:30

Um there's many ways to get clean. Everyone's way may be different, but there there is hope and there is a way. Just don't give up. You may relapse today, you may wait, whatever. As long as you're still trying, you you know, you still want to try.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

And there's no silver bullet, what works for one person doesn't work for someone else. Everyone's in their unique situation. Just don't give up.

SPEAKER_10 20:57

That's all I'm gonna say. Just don't give up, keep going. You'll give up.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

And find that supporter in life. I mean, Ian, you mentioned to have a good positive relationship, whether it's romantic or whether it's a friend, having that support, even just one person around you can make all the difference.

SPEAKER_06 21:12

A bit of a cheerleader alongside um we, you know, we take people to play football every week, and people say, Oh, so what? Well, so what is it's massively good for people's mental health. They suddenly are doing something with a bunch of kind of mates. And one guy said to me recently, he said, I literally felt my mental health lifting off me. Because for a couple of hours I was a little footballer, not a drug addict. You know, and so I think finding boxing, finding football, finding dancing, finding positive things in life, getting out to Tilgate Park and fishing, you know, it doesn't matter what it is. But natural dopamines. Yeah, exactly that. That's right. So as a society, we're a little bit screen heavy. Do you know what I mean? And it all just 100%. Yeah, you know, do something we all know what. What makes us feel better for our soul. And yet we constantly don't do it, you know? And we all know we feel better when we go for a walk in the hills or something. But it doesn't cost anything, and you know, so it's finding, as you say, the natural h highs.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

I think boredom is such a it's is it's so difficult for people to cope within homelessness. It's often sort of where we see you know concerning behaviours re redevelop when when someone's done well because they've not got stuff to watch by the time. When we provide if we start provide when we start providing when we have the funding to provide good, you know, additional you know, things that we can, you know, give to people, like taking them to play football, like you know, sports classes, even stuff like at Christmas, like we did, you know, wreath making and stuff. But I think these these all had like you know, a huge amount of you know, beneficial, like, you know, for the for the clients that were involved. They really, really enjoyed this stuff. And you know, the feedback was we want more of this because it was occupying their time, it was taking them away from their thoughts and you know, giving them space to, you know, like you say, lift the mental health off and give them and try to break those patterns.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

I guess it's a it's a way of showing other things, getting out of that zone. Um, so so we've talked about barriers to escaping homelessness. Sorry, I know I always interrupt. No, go for it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_10 23:20

Um, I just want to throw this out there as well. There's obviously funding is amazing and all, but there's so many free places you can actually go to get help. Uh Cocaine Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, these things work, and they work for millions of people over the world all over the world. And those are the types of groups you can go to and find a little group that you can go play football with or go play snooker with, who in and get them natural dove means who also understand where you're coming from. So there's there are so many ways just look into them. Like I said, I don't go CA, but one of my friends runs it in Crawley, and I've seen over the years good 20, 30 people that I've known personally change their lives through these programs. So, yeah, C A N A A five.

How To Help Without Harm

SPEAKER_02 24:09

And a lot of it's interconnected. I mean, a couple of weeks ago we were talking about mental health, men share listening groups, Sean Orr, and the brilliant work they do as well, and sister share, it's all it's all interconnected in many ways, and I think the bottom line is as society to be more human, more kind, helping each other, which brings me to so we talked about the barriers, we've talked about the challenges of getting out. Now, anyone listening to this, seeing homeless people on on the street, how how might they best help? And I'm thinking, yeah, coffee, money, food, Michaela?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I never work with homeless uh people like Michelle and Ian, but I often stop and talk to them. And we're talking about mental health really impact the homeless people, and this is the biggest reason they're they're on the streets. I had this, I start doing this more often after I stopped one time. I didn't have any money, I didn't have cigarettes on me. I usually give something that I have there, but I didn't have anything. But I I just told him, sorry, I'm I don't have anything, and he said, What I wish the most is to stop being invisible. And I asked what he meant by that, and he said, People almost step on me and they won't even say sorry. People pass by me and won't say good morning. It's like we become nobody to the rest of the world. So I often start setting down with people. I would sit on the street and just talk to them. And you almost feel like psychologists or something. Like they just want someone to listen to their stories, someone to not so much understand because we've never been in that situation. We really like he said to stop being invisible, and that that sympathy makes someone's day. And then our other things like we often talk about giving people's food. Um just today, this afternoon, I went to Asda for shopping, and this lady asked me for knickers, which is something I often give to ladies is um sorry hygiene. Let's just speculate.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

So you're going to Asda and then.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

And I stopped and asked this homeless lady if she likes some food or drinks, something I could buy inside, because no one carries money nowadays. And she did say no one never has money for me, but I am really hungry. So um, I said I'll buy you some food, and she said, But what I really need is some knickers. Some hygiene products is something that, especially women, because we have the period, they don't have access most of the time. So um, I did I did always buy uh tampons and other things for ladies, uh, but this one she just wants some knickers.

SPEAKER_06 26:49

I think we all like putting on a new pair of socks, yeah. And I always say to people, when people say, How can we help? one of the best gifts you can give a home to shelter is new socks and underwear. You know, we'll have people today and tomorrow coming into our day centre who'll have a shower, and if you're not careful, they'll put on the same dirty undies that they came in with. And if you can dignify them with a packet of still in the packet, so they know they're new. And I did it recently to a guy, I gave him a packet of three, simple, they were from Primark or something, they weren't you know lush, they were fine. But I gave him and he said, Oh, shall I just take one? I said, No, mate, they're three you know, and he couldn't believe we were giving him three pairs of boxes, but they probably cost a fiver, do you know what I mean? But you at least you're dignifying someone with clean underwear, you know. So I think there's something really powerful in what was just said about you know giving people the dignity of cleaning socks and underwear, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

And also the time. I mean, quite often we think about food, money, just sitting down side by side as a human and just having a conversation.

SPEAKER_06 27:54

I sat with a guy recently in London, similar, I do the same when I can. Um, and he said, Can I use your phone? And I said, Yeah, of course you can. Just calling Serbia. But as I'm doing it, I'm thinking the bad part of me is thinking he's gonna nick my phone. 90% of me is thinking I've worked with these guys, they're not, he's not gonna nick my phone. So, yeah, he nicked my phone. No, he didn't make a couple of calls, and I and he went a little bit away from me. He was probably 20 yards away from me. But you know, I kept an eye on him and he kept smiling over, but he he could use a phone, you know, and I don't even know who he's calling. I don't care who he's calling, really. But that didn't really cost me anything, and there's a little bit of trust involved. But I think to ask people, you know, what do you want? Oh, a pair of knickers, or what do you want, a bottle of water, you know, uh be kind. Whenever I I do quite a lot of school assemblies, and they always say, Oh, what should we do if we and I say, be kind, you know, and that will mean different things to different people. Getting on someone's level and and giving them a bit of humanity and time is being kind, you know, giving them uh using the phone, I suppose, is being kind, but whatever you do, even if you smile, that's being kind, because they're not used to that, are they, you know?

SPEAKER_01 29:10

So uh I think I have taken a homeless in my car, but for a big trip. So I was coming out of Asta and I need a lighter just for my cigarette, and uh and it was nearly Christmas time, and I said to him, What would you wish the most for this Christmas? hoping that I would be able to help him. And he said that I would love to visit my family. Now he did trick me, he said he was really close. I did drove for 45 long minutes. But for the when I said to him, Okay, let's jump in the car. And he was like, You're kidding me? I was like, I'm serious, just please jump in my car. And he said, Are you sure? And I had loads of shopping, I had lots of uh food and stuff, and I asked all the way, Do you want some food? Do you want some drink? He said, No, you're already doing so much for me. And he said, The first stop I would like to go to my grandpa's. So we did the first stop, and this this couple um they were about 70 years old, the grumpiest people I have ever met. I got in and they were like, What are you doing with this no one? And I said, Well, if that's the way you're gonna treat him, then we are on our way out. And he said, Please just stay for five minutes because he wanted to make a cup of tea. He hadn't had a cup of tea for a long time. And I sat on the sofa just talking to them as long as I could so he could access the kitchen and have a cup of tea, but they w they want him out of there. So then we went to his mum's house, which they knew that we were going and didn't say that she was in hospital. We went all the way there, so and the neighbor said she was in hospital, so we weren't we're not able to see her. And then the last stop, his brother, which was in a in a council house where he couldn't accommodate his brother because they were in jail before for tr they were a troublemaker when they were younger. And then he started shaking and he said, I need to go. So he was addicted. And as I said before, people assume that everyone goes on the streets, they already have addictions. On the way back, I said to him, You don't need to hire, I can see you shaking, can tell me um that you you're gonna need some drugs soon. And he said, Yeah, but I only got on this after um to cope with all the stress.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

As a coping was a coping, and then that becomes that circle that Ikebel was talking about, how to then escape that addiction.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Um and he didn't ask for a single thing. When I dropped him, I said, You want some money? He said, You have made the best thing anyone could ever done for me.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

And good for you, giving a lift, because there is a risk, isn't there? There is a risk that goes through your mind. Um, and recently when I went out with Ichbel on Tess's kitchen for one feed, there was a chap that was recently homeless. Uh was a very positive guy. I think he's now at the Crawley Open House, and part of me had this compulsion to say, look, just just come home with me. Um and you know, give your butt. I don't know what stops me doing that.

SPEAKER_06 32:06

I just worry that we talk about a triangle with action, compassion, and wisdom. And there's a lot of people in life who lacking wisdom who are very compassionate and very action, but they don't actually have the wisdom bit. That's it. There's lots of wisdom, lots of compassion, and no one ever does anything about it. So I always think of that. And you you've got it sounds like you know, in that you've got action and compassion, but you do have to be wise. Yeah, and that's where some people you end up enabling people rather than helping them if you're not careful. You know, f let me give you one example. We personally as an organization don't give out tents because and people if someone finds a tent, that's up to them, but we don't give them out because we lost someone a few years ago who was on the streets in Crawley. Um, they were given a tent. They went to the back of one of the parks and overdosed and died. Now, if they'd overdosed and died, uh sorry, overdosed in Crawley Town Centre, it's likely there'd have been other people around. And because they'd isolated themselves in a tent, so but uh people give us a hard time, or you're not giving people tents. Well, we've actually got a bit of wisdom there and a bit of lived experience around why we don't. I'm not saying you know, so I think there's a reason that people have worked in this a long time and and sort of know the backstory of some of the people involved and some of the things that so I think I'm all for people being sort of compassionate and action-filled and on the street, but there is, you know, there's a place for involving the local homeless agents.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

You've dedicated decades to this, so there's there's oodles of wisdom.

SPEAKER_06 33:45

Well, it's not just me, there's seven of us who run open house, we've got over 108 years of experience between us, and that counts for something because we've kind of seen it all, and so I do sometimes you see social media and people putting themselves in situations they shouldn't put themselves in, um, and being a little bit unwise, which uh all I would say is by all means be compassionate, but be a little bit wise as well.

SPEAKER_10 34:09

I would just like to add the gentleman that Clive is talking about today came up to me, he was just housed today. I think uh like sat with you lot, so which is brilliant.

SPEAKER_09 34:20

And he he only came.

SPEAKER_10 34:22

I was like, take some food. He's like, No, no, I'm I'm I'm housed today, I'm good, I'm gonna be in the open house, I've got food tonight. I was like, it don't matter, take some anyway. And he was like, No, no, I wanted to go to somewhere it goes. And but that just shows his character. And and it just to go.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

And he was quite positive, he was going for interviews, he's trying to get it back on track, and and you know, good for him. It's always nice to have a good story. And be before we get into turning tides and crawley open house and what you do as services and some events and fundraising to do, any final comments from around the table and questions that we've got?

SPEAKER_04 34:56

I was just wondering, you know, because there's this vicious circle, isn't there, of people that are homeless, they have no fixed abode, so they could apply for a job that, you know, that they haven't got an address, and not having an address just sort of excludes you from doing a lot of things, doesn't it? So, I mean, uh uh if if they're at open house, I mean, do they put that as an address? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:16

It's only enough to be at open house. You could be street homeless in Crawley and use open house as an address. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

You could have your own tenancy, and if you don't feel your post is safe because the post area isn't secure, you can still use open house as your so no that's and is there some sort of is there a stigma around putting that in your plant? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_06 35:36

No, care of crawley open house. The reason we we're called Riverside House, so for that very reason, actually, if people didn't want to put Crawley Open House, you could put care of Riverside House Stevenson Way, and people wouldn't even know it's Crawley Open House. So we've deliberately did that actually to it sounds very posh, doesn't it, Riverside House? And it's anything like that's like MI6.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

The pen house, Riverside things.

SPEAKER_06 36:00

But no, you're right, that is a real problem, and but it's I'm sure tenetizes are the same. You can use your local shelter as a as a care of address, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Okay. And what about the difference between helping a single person and helping families? There's a big difference in that as well, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah, very much so. I mean, um one of your most primary differences between helping a single person and helping a family that have ch specifically children under 18, is that um having children under the age of 18 actually automatically gives you priority need under housing homelessness legislation, which means that um at least in the very first instance, while the councils are while while the council is conducting their investigations, it does mean that you will be housed that day into temporary accommodation. Um and then sort of multi-agency supports it usually, you know, uh may include sort of like, you know, um family and child social care becoming involved and and helping find um that accommodation. But yeah, that that is one of you know families that almost nearly always have that priority need because they have their children with them. If anybody is listening who wants to sort of support um if they see somebody that's sleeping rough and they've got concerns, one of the best things that you can do is report it via Street Link, which is a government-funded initiative run with um St Monglows, which is a very large homelessness charity, primarily based in London but with a lot of operation outside.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

That's Street Link, yeah. So you just Google it and Street Link Street Link will come up.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

What that does is that you can report seeing that homeless person, that then is sent directly to the local outreach teams. So they will um you know they will send it to the correct council to the correct outreach team. Wow, and they can get out to that person, usually within the next session that they're out. So if you're not quite as um ready as as Michaela and Ian are to do um to to um you know pop someone in their car and sit down and chat, that can be the next best thing that you can do. Um yes, that person may well be somebody that is known to services, but it also might be someone who is brand new to services and desperately needs our help.

SPEAKER_10 38:12

That's a good point. We get sorry, I've just got the number for street link. It's 0300-500-0914. 0300-500-0914.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

It's great you've mentioned that because um I don't have much experience with interacting with homeless people or helping homeless people. However, once um I saw a man um sleeping in his sleeping back. I thought he was sleeping, but he was actually quite unwell. Um, and I was waiting for a cab, so I had a couple of minutes to spare. So I called the police because the cops were my first instinct and the first obvious place to call. And they refused to come. They said he wasn't a priority, and there is certainly nothing wrong with him, even though he was sort of in and out of it. He was kind of shaking, but also pretty much gone. Um, and you know, as a passerby, you don't really know what to do, you don't really know who to ask for help. So police would be the obvious choice. But they simply told me, No, we're not coming.

SPEAKER_10 39:19

So that's uh because we don't know how many times they've probably already been out to see him that day, the day before. There's a lot so when we turn up to these situations without knowing, we assume, but we don't know. He's already been seen three times.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

Of course, but what would be the right thing? So where is the deity of care?

SPEAKER_02 39:39

So, what is the best thing? So if you were agar and someone didn't know.

SPEAKER_10 39:44

I'm not saying don't call, I'm just saying if they refuse to come, understand they've probably already been there 15 times this week. So maybe not the police call the ambulance and said calling. That's from personal experience, I know.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, but say that don't to explain to you.

SPEAKER_10 39:58

That's what I'm trying to explain. It's just so you know, like they may not come out. We obviously see what we see.

SPEAKER_05 40:04

Fair enough, but I am kind of dubious. And also, my goodness, so much of my council tax goes to the police force. So, please, police officers work your wages.

SPEAKER_10 40:15

Oh, another thing. Sorry, talking about taxes. I remembered, I remembered something you said. Um you mentioned that. So if someone goes to prison, yeah, they hold their flat for how long?

SPEAKER_00 40:26

I think it's somewhere in the region between 13 to 17 weeks. Housing, that's how long housing benefit would be.

SPEAKER_10 40:33

They're also gonna pay to keep them in prison. That's a lot of taxes, isn't it? Is that what my money goes? I'm not saying I'm not I'm this is not me saying it's a bad thing.

SPEAKER_07 40:44

This is just me realizing that I'm paying for double occupancy. Think about the bane of short prisons for many people sitting in prison.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Think about the bane of short prisons. Most of them. You know, which people should not, you know, sh people should not lose their tenancy.

SPEAKER_10 41:01

Of course, and the council and the police definitely should be. I know, but still it just doesn't sit well with you, it's not 18 weeks. I like okay, I used to live a life of crime, I didn't pay taxes. Now I pay taxes and I look at my pay slip and I see how much I'm putting in, which is quite a bit every month. Yeah. Um, you want to know that it's being used properly. I'm not saying that's the right way to use it or the wrong way to use it. I'm just trying to get to grips with how it's being used.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

And this is this crosses back to the cost of living episode that we did. There we go. Um Agatha, so you did well calling and maybe call ambulance as well. But how did you feel when I mean what happened? You just got in your taxi after.

SPEAKER_05 41:42

The taxi came and I hopped on it and went on my way. Yes, pretty much. And how I felt, um, I I didn't feel anything in particular, if I'm completely honest with you. I didn't feel, you know, yay me, I've helped somebody. You didn't go to the police station.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

I thought you were gonna tell the taxi driver, take me to the police station so you can make it a play.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

No, absolutely not. I had I had places to be. Um, but I was quite taken aback by the officers, the the first responders, um reaction to it. I wasn't really prepared to hear no. I was expecting for them to say, okay, we're going to come and have a look at him, because the man was very clearly unwell. And, you know, if I was to if I was to think about it again, I I would hope maybe somebody else also took um took some interest in in him and his well-being.

Turning Tides Outreach And Fundraising

SPEAKER_02 42:42

And that's why it's amazing to have people like Ian and Michelle in the world who who dedicate their lives and careers to this along with their teens, right? And which moves us on nicely, if I doesn't interrupt, moves us on nicely to talk about the services you provide. So who would like to go first? Turning tides or crawley open house? You choose. Iqbel, you choose. Turning tides. There we go. We'll finish off with Ladies first. So I mean we've we've talked about the recovery project in Worthing.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Uh we've talked about the community hubs more or less in Little Hampton and Worthing. Yeah. Um do you want to tell us a little bit about outreach and also maybe some events coming up and fundraising? Anyone listening that wants to help and support turning tides? What are the different ways?

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Um, so you said outreach, didn't you, firstly?

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah, we can talk about outreach first.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I'll go with outreach first, so I don't for yeah. Um, so um in the Middle Sussex area, which is the um which is East Brunstead, Burgess Hill, Hamers Heath, um our outreach teams um are the ones working with the council to go and reach people who are experiencing homelessness. Quite often in really rural, um sort of um, you know, difficult to reach. Areas across across the county and helping getting them to access, you know, helping them to get them to the services that they need. So that might be going into the council, but I know that the team work really hard to um try and help individuals in those areas reach you know medical appointments and you know things like you know accessing their substance um misuse workers and teams like through CGL or our own internal ones. Um they're a team that really really do go above and beyond to try and you know help people if for whatever reason they're not ready to go into accommodation, which can happen, at least to make it easier while they continue to uh first connection getting to and how many are in that team roughly? In that team, that's um off the top of my head, I think it's about two, maybe three. Okay. Um, but yeah, they are um an absolutely amazing team. Um as somebody who specialised was sort of in wordings and dealing with urban homelessness, for me, you know, thinking about rural homelessness absolutely blows my mind. The the amount of you know, travel and mileage and time it takes, resources it takes. If somebody can't necessarily be seen every single day, we don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Can't check in.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Can't check in duty of care, yeah. Exactly. And that's sort of like that's then when sort of programmes that we have something else called digital inclusion can be really helpful. I mean, digital inclusion has helped me stay in contact with clients, you know.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

We're able to still make that connection, we can still check on these people by get making sure that they've got devices and stuff that can be you know, that can be, you know, really can make the difference between and also demonstrate someone actually cares, and it's a gentle step towards then well, why don't you come into accommodation or go into one of your programs that you've got? Um if anyone's listening to this, how how might they best support turning tides?

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Um one of the best ways to support turning tides is to um consider setting up a monthly donation. Um donations will go towards um keeping um services like our you know, like our hub services you know, very much keep them going, keep them stocked with food. If financial donations aren't you know what somebody wants to do, then uh gifting items to us is also you know hugely appreciated. Um all donations that come into us, such as food, clothing, even we can even consider bedding and furniture, um, they actually all go directly to the um to our clients. Um we don't sell to the public essentially. Um so that means that all of those items will go directly to a client.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Or we use directly someone in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yeah, and anonymous donations are socks a couple of weeks ago. It was huge. I was so delighted. I was like, socks of people. Just actually having clean feet when you're street homeless is is immensely important.

SPEAKER_02 47:06

And and your website is easy to find, turning tides across West Sussex. Uh, you can donate there, you can give items as we're hearing. Uh, but also there's a long list of events, and I won't challenge you to try and remember them because I've made a little list here.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Oh, please don't, because I'm I'm supposed to promote all of this.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, 9th of May, which one's happening? It's the Dome Cinema Poster sale.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

And I've posted about that today as well.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

And uh and there's a swimming, there's a wild swimming coming up, yes, um in East Preston. Yeah, yes. 13th of June.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yes. We've got um Sussex Three Peaks just after that. So that's um doing a walk of the um Um, yeah, south down covering Sisbury, Choddenbury, and oh gosh, what's it called?

SPEAKER_02 47:53

I couldn't remember the third peak, but I can tell you it's fifteen miles. It takes about seven hours. So if you want to do a nice country walk on the 20th of June, yeah, turning tides will be appreciated. And then there's Bark in the Park, which sounds quite interesting.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yes, we do quite we regularly do little um we do regular bark in the parks where we um we've just done one up um in Worthing. It's a just a nice big dog walk, you know, and get people together, walk their dogs, raise a bit of money. Um, we're um supported by a fantastic um um company that's based in Horsham that um provides us with treats for the dogs that are you know quite niche treats, really. And um, you know, the poochers love it. I mean, the humans only get a cup of tea, but the pooch is very horsemen. Yeah, get very nice gourmet treats. Don't be mean about Horsham, it's not their fault.

Crawley Open House Needs And Events

SPEAKER_02 48:40

That's the 12th of September in Horsham for that one. Check out the Turning Tides website. Now let's hand over to Ian. If you're finished, Michelle, you've got anything else to mention? Nope, not a present. Uh Ian, Crawley Open House. How might people help and get involved?

SPEAKER_06 48:54

Um, follow us on social media. It's probably a good start because on our socials we'll always put posts saying help, we're short of the current one. Is toilet roll as a homeless shelter, you don't want to run out of toilet roll. Um, so that's so there'll always be something on there saying um we need volunteers, we need this, we need that. Um spray deodorants are always every day I get asked for spray deodorants and we for by men and women, and we very rarely have enough. So um new socks and underwear, spray deodorants, dog food, dog treats. We nearly always have dogs in the hostel um and visiting us in the day centre. So um, if dogs are your passion, then we look after people's dogs as well as we look after their owners. We also have some event, a couple of events to highlight. Um we've got our first ever five-aside football tournament hosted by League Champions Three Bridges Football Club on the 7th of June, Sunday. Still got a couple of spare team places for that. So if you've got a squad of eight um for a five-aside tournament to raise a bit of money and have a fun tournament Sunday, the 7th of June. And then we do a sleep out every year, which the messaging on it is always really critical because it's a tiny glimpse of the misery of homelessness. Um, and that's happening on Thursday, November the 12th, in Queen Square in Crawley, and there's usually about 50 of us, and and we deliberately make it no fun whatsoever, because sleeping on the streets is no fun whatsoever. So people say, What's happening? and we say nothing because it shouldn't be DJs and bedtime stories and all that stuff we don't believe. So if you want a tiny glimpse of the misery of homelessness, um, Thursday, the November the twelfth, it's deliberately on a Thursday, because people say, Oh, I've got to go to work on Friday, great, go to work on Friday, having had no sleep, it's cold, uncomfortable, and then you will get even more of a tiny glimpse um of what it's like to be street homeless.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

I'll tell you what, a tiny glimpse. I did it once, a good few years ago, it was when the bandstand was in Queen's Square. So it was a long time ago, yeah. And um, you know, you get your cardboard boxes, you set up, you think, right, I got this sleeping bag, carbo boxes, and and as you say, there's no thrills, it's the real deal. You're there, and it's pretty chilly that time of year. It's done on purpose, right? It's not a summer night. No, November. And the surprise, I mean, obviously being there, you kind of expected, but the real surprise is it's when it gets to four o'clock, five o'clock in the morning, and you think, I can't wait to go home to get that hot shower because I'm freezing, yeah. But I tell you what, it dawns on you people that are in that situation where they don't know when they're gonna get it literally they don't know where the end is. Yeah, that is the surprising thing to to know that how are you gonna dry your your clothes, how are you gonna get a wash? I mean, it really brings it home.

SPEAKER_06 51:51

So, this is the big sleep out um Thursday, November the 12th, yeah. Yeah, and it's sponsored, so we ask people to get sponsored. It's usually our biggest fundraiser of um of the year. We raised about 15,000 quid from that last year. Um lots of big companies kind of get behind it. Um so yeah, but we always I asked the street community about it. I said, What do you think of this? And they said, Well, yeah, you're making a big deal about sleeping out for one night. You idiots. You know, and and I get it totally. But then some of them came and slept with us because for one night in the year they felt safe. Yeah. So it's a mixed thing, you know, they get it that they want to raise money for open hours because most of them kind of respect open hours. But we always say to people, don't make a big deal out of it, because it's literally just one night. And as you say, you've got a warm shower to go home to, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

So and also you're up for monthly donations because of course monthly reoccurring donations helps you do the business planning. Uh, but another nice thing you do is you invite businesses to come in and take over the kitchen. I think Talus do this a lot, uh, and other businesses as well.

SPEAKER_06 52:56

Two or three times a week at the moment, companies are coming in, four or five people bring in all the ingredients for a shepherd's pie, serve it to everyone living in the hostel, and it's brilliant because what it does, it breaks down barriers. Um the company coming in don't quite know what to expect, and they're always amazed how hopeful the place is, and they get chatting with people. We had a lady in the other day who worked for an airline, and she looked out and she saw a bloke living in the hostel who she used to fly with. So they flew together for Monarch Airways, and and they had this amazing embrace that one had kind of gone one way and one had gone the other, and and you get these amazing connections happening um between people who life has just dealt them different things. But yeah, lot if anyone doesn't have to be a company, we have groups of friends from church.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

What about a round table? Because this is kitchen come in the open house, mate. Come in. Yeah, we love it when people come in.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

Um I want to see podcasts for turning tides at the time.

SPEAKER_06 53:56

It's my we had a group recently who I'm crafting.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Well, let's just do a quick vote.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

I don't think I didn't flick my cooking. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 54:19

Well, something very well. But Ian, on a serious note, as you were talking about it, and I've been thinking because I actually follow Crawley Open House. Every time I see one of the tests like uh Talis or whoever, I always love uh love the post and the food always looks amazing. You had a lady on a Tuesday to doing it for us. Alex, yeah. She's amazing. Mate, does she still do it? No, she's just had a baby's. Oh, that's why she's disappeared. But the food looks lovely. I'm looking at, oh my god, Alex, how can I get you involved?

SPEAKER_09 54:50

You're gonna recruit her potentially. Yeah, I wish yeah, I will. I'm not gonna lie, I wasn't uh but yeah, I'd love to come and uh do something. Yeah, I love the way we deviate. Um that's what makes it authentic.

SPEAKER_05 55:06

I think I'm the polar opposite of Michaela because she's very sensitive and I'm I'm not that sensitive. But the one thing I I'd love to tell you, I think it's beautiful that you do house pets, so I'm assuming dogs, uh, alongside people, because from what I see and from what is probably very common knowledge, people sometimes refuse to go into shelters, uh, even though they have the option to go into shelter and the bed is the the bed may be waiting for them, but if they have a cat and or a dog, they won't abandon them, which is perfectly understandable. They won't give them into um into an animal shelter, uh, or they they just don't know what to what to do with them, so they stay on the streets.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

So often that's their best friend, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 55:59

It's the lifeline, it's it's their best friend.

SPEAKER_06 56:02

We love having dogs, they they become a sort of house dog, you know, and different people walk them and they become part of the family, you know, and it's really important actually.

SPEAKER_05 56:11

I think it absolutely is, and so far I've only known about one charity that does that. It's called Sun Mongos. Sigmongoes, I mentioned them earlier. Yes, yes, yes. So I know they do that, and you're the second one. We also do allow and you're the third one.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

Thank you. Thank you. Some of our projects do allow it, some of them don't.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

So dogs, cats, not cats, cockatians, not cats, cats aren't allowed.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

But house rabbits.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

House rabbits?

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Yeah, cockatians.

SPEAKER_06 56:39

We had two cats recently. A girl was evicted from a property with two cat baskets, and she stayed with us for a few weeks with that cat.

SPEAKER_10 56:48

Can I just add that for Agatha here? The thing that touched her. Is animals?

SPEAKER_01 56:54

She loves animals more than people. We were talking about animals. I mean, not even.

SPEAKER_08 57:05

I'm Polish and I'm not very um but thank you for the dogs.

SPEAKER_05 57:14

I think he's been to parallel.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

If you've got to know Echaro for other episodes, I think people are building a picture now. And uh check out the bios because we've got the bios on the website as well, so you can find out more about it. Ichabelle needs to write his as well.

SPEAKER_05 57:39

All wise, there's absolutely nothing in between.

SPEAKER_10 57:42

Well, no, but on a serious note, to both of you lot, thank you for the work that you guys do. Um I look forward to working with you guys in the future. Definitely, I'm kind of worthing Tessa's kitchen watch. But uh Worthing, this is the thing in worthy. So, yeah, I've been planning to do that anyway, and then I met you today, which is brilliant. And Ian, to actually see the work that you guys do firsthand, to actually know the people actually who live in your in the open house. And just today, like I said, I met two people today who said they are now in the open house. So thank you. Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_06 58:13

You won't all live near turning tides or calling up now, but support your local homeless shower, you know. There aren't enough of them around and and and also volunteers, right?

SPEAKER_02 58:22

You live volunteers as well.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Volunteers are always welcome. We've had volunteers coming in and do amazing things. There's a really wonderful um project that was over in Little Hampton where we had volunteers come in and you know build sheds and greenhouses for um the Grow Group, so they start this season with you know, fully kitted out with new facilities, which is going to be amazing for that for that group. So, you know, and we couldn't do that without the help of our volunteers. We couldn't cook break the amount of breakfasts that we do every single day without this team of amazing volunteers that that that flock to turning tides every day.

Final Thanks And Where To Listen

SPEAKER_02 58:56

Thank you so much, both of you, for sharing all of the wisdom, all of your experiences. I know renewed hope wanted to be here as well this evening, but thank you very much from uh from the Lincoln Arms in Dawkins. It's been a lot of fun. It's been a super long episode. We knew it was going to be a mega long one, this homelessness. But thank you so much, and uh thank you for listening. Do follow us on Spotify, Amazon Music, and Apple Podcasts as well. And let us know what you think about what you've heard. If you've been making those comments on Facebook, we've hopefully answered some of those misconceptions. Right, that's it. Thank you very much. Cheers. Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 59:35

Tell us what you think. Leave a comment below or click on send a text. Thank you for listening to the Sussex and Surrey soapbox.