Mother’s Day Reflections & Iqbal’s Charm

This is not a typical episode - sharing a brief soundbite of a Roundtable discussion which aired on Mother’s Day... **jump to the last 90 seconds where Iqbal shares a heartfelt message to his sister, partner and mum! 

We discuss upcoming St Patrick's Day compared to St George's & St David's Days along with the state of national pride and reflect on Ramadan.

A listener left a voice-note after last weeks International Women's Day which sparks a deeper conversation about women’s success at work, fairness at home, and whether gratitude sometimes hides the mental load.

Roundtable Featuring: Graham Dearing (Guest), Maureen Jones, Georgie Lucas, Iqbal Khan, Aga Es & James Tidy. Host: Clive Hilton. 

Please click on 'Send a text' above & join our Facebook group to share your perspective and suggestions for future topics - Thank you for your interest! Clive.

Transcript

Mother’s Day Plans And Family Traditions

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Sussex and Surrey soapbox and uh we've got the round table together. It's the fifteenth of March, Mother's Day. Hello everyone.

unknown 0:09

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Hello, hello. Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Who's going to be doing anything special today for Mother's Day?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

I don't want to go out for lunch in a restaurant because it's going to be really busy, really expensive, and and rushed, I believe. So I'm actually cooking for my lot at home and I'm very happy to do it. They can do the pot wash, they can walk the dog, but I'm going to cook at home for my family.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Well, my kids are coming over to the house and uh they are my son has said he will provide a feast. What that is going to be, I have no idea. I did suggest that I'd cook, and I was told firmly that that was not happening, that I shouldn't be cooking on Mother's Day. So I'm waiting, I mean, looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Well, I'm not going to do anything because weirdly enough, in Poland, where my mother lives, we celebrate Mother's Day at a completely different date. And because I'm rubbish with dates, I've no idea what that date is. But when I find out, I will send my mum a text.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

But surely if you send her flowers on our Mother's Day, then it's going to be cheaper, isn't it? Because obviously in Poland the price of flowers goes up like it does here every Mother's Day. So you could save yourself a few bobs.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

That is a point.

Eid And The Rhythm Of Ramadan

SPEAKER_07 1:19

There we go. There's a takeaway there. Now, while we're talking about meals and uh and celebrating, uh, Eid's coming up this week, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:27

Uh yes, it's coming up. Uh end of Ramadan. People have been fasting for 30 days, uh trying to do charity, praying, and you know, trying to get one with themselves and their creator.

SPEAKER_07 1:40

Very good. Very good. I remember one summer I was in Egypt and people were fasting in the summer, and obviously it's daylight hours, you can't eat or drink.

SPEAKER_05 1:50

Yeah, this year is pretty easy because uh I think about 5 40 um sunset, so you can eat. Summer time, you're nine o'clock.

SPEAKER_07 1:59

And what day is Eid? Because it it varies, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:01

It depends. Yeah, it will either be Wednesday or Thursday.

St Patrick’s Day And Patriotism Compared to St. George's and St.David's Days

SPEAKER_07 2:04

Wednesday or Thursday is coming away. And also on Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day.

SPEAKER_05 2:09

Yes. Very, very, very special day for me. But why is it a special day? Uh because where I grew up, um, it's a massive thing. So I grew up in New Jersey, so St. Paddy's Day every year, massive parade. It used to be something that was you look forward to every year. The whole Broadway is everyone's out barbecuing, partying, and yeah, so yeah, St. Patrick's Day has always been special for me.

SPEAKER_07 2:33

I don't know, for me, I've always felt a little bit jealous that that St. Patrick's Day has been a really good celebration. It's almost it'd be amazing if we can make St. George's Day similar, right? And coming back to previous conversations we've had in this round table about being patriotic and what that looks like. St. Patrick's Day is exactly that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_09 2:51

I I think St. Patrick's Day is um unfortunately a slightly too American these days. It wasn't necessarily brought in by the Irish and uh encouraged by the Irish, it was it was an American thing that almost came over. Um but absolutely we need we need to encourage patriotism more. Um in Wales, as I said before, we celebrate St David's Day and we do a lot of that. It's a big thing in the school, so very, very patriotic over there, and the English are totally missing out. So we should have a much bigger thing where we all go out, and perhaps everyone on this table can at least do something English and patriotic on St George's Day.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Uh I just want to sorry, just correct you. The Irish, it is the American Irish who bought in St. Patrick's Day, and it was them for them because there's such a large Irish community there. That's what I wanted to say. Like it's sorry, it is the Irish who've done it, it's not an American thing.

SPEAKER_09 3:37

I think the the thing no, I think it's widespread because it was taken over by the American culture and kids and the the American media machine of TV and film, which puts it into all of our living rooms. I think that's really what's encouraged it.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

That I I the thing is, I never saw it on TV. I just I lived it. It's everywhere you go. It's it's it's it's massive there. It's like Saint That uh it's like a Thanksgiving. It's just without the turkey. So that's how I've always looked at it.

SPEAKER_07 4:03

And when we think about St. George's Day and St. David's Day, would you would you say, James, St. David's Day is more popular and more celebrated than St. George's Day?

SPEAKER_09 4:12

Oh, yeah, absolutely. In in schools you have the Icethods. Uh well in Wales, uh St. David's Day is more celebrated than the English celebrate St. George's Day, yeah. I mean I didn't go to school in England, but the Welsh children, it's a big thing. You bring in cakes, you wear traditional costume, you um make sculptures of things that you're proud of in Wales. And it's it's the run-up is a big thing. You celebrate a big day with the I said fodd, um, you sing the national anthem in school. And I don't know many schools these days that are unfortunately still singing the national anthem. It seems to be something that's died out, but no, it's it's a huge thing, and if you go into Wales on St. David's Day, you very much know it's St. David's Day immediately. If you go into England on St George's Day, it could just be any any other day.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

Wow. And that's true. I'm I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm a bit embarrassed that I don't actually know what St George's Day is or the other one. St. David's St.

SPEAKER_08 5:04

David's Day because it's my birthday of March Day.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Do we even know the dates? I don't even know the St David's Day's March the birthday, it's the first time. 23rd of April, I think, St George's Day. When, sorry? 23rd of April.

SPEAKER_07 5:15

And what would be the way of celebrating St. George's? I'm showing my ignorance here, but St. George, if we were to I mean, obviously Welsh cakes, St. David's Day, it's Welsh cakes, it's all of that, um and the Welsh like what what would we do with St. George's Day?

SPEAKER_04 5:28

Probably all have a card.

SPEAKER_07 5:29

St. George was eating fish.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Turkish apparently.

SPEAKER_08 5:34

It's a shame because even the George Cross has been maligned of late as well. You're not allowed to show it. It's seen as a like uh almost a racist symbol.

SPEAKER_09 5:41

So that's that's a real shame. There there was a uh a day where they were celebrating cultures in school, and a and a girl, I'm sure we all heard of this, um, I don't know how old she was, about twelve, wore a Union Jack dress to look like one of the Spice Girls, and she was told to go home that she couldn't wear the Union Jack dress in school on a day where they were celebrating cultures.

SPEAKER_07 6:02

And this very much crosses back to previous episodes with the flag flying patriotic and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_06 6:09

It's your Susie Sunday brunch, bringing you sound bites from the topics that matter most. Want more? Search Sussex and Surrey soapbox for the full episode out now.

Listener Pushback On Women’s Day

SPEAKER_07 6:20

So the latest episode is out already, all about education and the secondary school teacher's perspective. We're talking to that teacher in about half an hour's time. But if you want to hear the full conversation right now, you can head over to the podcast Sussex and Surrey Soapbox. Otherwise, we've got sound bites to come between now and the end of the show. And if you were listening last week, we were talking about International Women's Day, and we have had quite a bit of feedback, including a voice message, which we'll do this hour. Looking forward to that. Getting back into International Women's Day. Yeah. Definitely sparked a lot of feedback and thought. Last week we talked about International Women's Day, uh, and we got quite a bit of feedback from people that listened to that episode, including a voice message from a listener. So let's just take a little listen to this and see what we think.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

I caught your soapbox podcast on International Women's Day on Sunday. Um I appreciate that the panel tried to tackle multiple subjects. It was it was quite interesting. Um, but there was a couple things that felt like missed opportunities to me. Um, there was a part that really stuck with me about, and it was reoccurring, about a night in shining armor narrative. A few times the discussion pivoted to stories of men saving women in their careers. Um, it felt like a dismissal of those women's own merits or skills. Uh, when we frame a leader sort of doing their job, like sponsoring a talented colleague as some sort of heroic rescue, it feels very much like we're stripping the woman of our agency. Um, I also felt that the panel played it a little bit too safe on the domestic front. They suggested that appreciation might be as important as redistributing the labor. And that feels like a little bit of a trap to me. Appreciation is a very nice sentiment. It doesn't always buy back a woman's time or reduce the cognitive load, though. So using nice words to validate an unequal workload feels like a safe way to keep the status quo comfortable without actually changing any of the power dynamic. Um, I'm a big fan, by the way. I just found these two points in particular less about the system, designed to keep women down, and more about male comfort. Um, so I have two questions for your panel. If we frame equality as a series of heroic rescues by men, do we accidentally suggest that a woman's success is a gift rather than our own hard-earned merit? And two, since thank you doesn't actually reduce a woman's mental load, is there a risk that gratitude is being used as a tool to make inequality feel more comfortable instead of actually fixing it? Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_07 8:44

Wow, so International Women's Day, this is the episode last week. Uh great to get some feedback. Any thoughts on what was said there?

SPEAKER_04 8:52

I think uh she was referring to um a story I told actually about how a man had recognized me in the workplace and and kind of pushed me into a different role in the company, so saw something in me. Um and I would say that that was a long time ago. Um and unfortunately it was a very male-oriented uh dominated environment. And I I mean I was I I absolutely get what she's saying, but I think it probably you probably don't need savings so much now. Not saving's the wrong word. I mean uh spotting, I suppose, um and promoting. But I think back then I would uh I just it didn't matter how brilliant I was. So I think nowadays, hopefully that you wouldn't need that so much. But I was I was just recognising this man as at the time being quite uh unusual in that he was willing to go out of his way to promote women in the world.

SPEAKER_07 9:45

And bucking the trend at that time.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

And bucking the trend at that time. Um hopefully things have moved on and your merits would get you s further on in in your career without men having to facilitate that.

SPEAKER_09 9:57

I I I think nobody in the room framed equ equalities as heroic rescues by men. The question was, Have you been helped? And so people were asking um how they've been helped, and they happen to be men. I don't think anyone in this room was suggesting that or framing that equality was heroic rescues by men, it was just that they were saying times when they've been helped.

SPEAKER_07 10:17

Well, it it could be stretchy, I think, when when Michaela was talking about the the driving situation and that she was in tears, and then a man came to the rescue to say, let me I think that that might be the story that that triggered that response, but not intentionally. Um helps that way.

SPEAKER_09 10:36

Perhaps not, but I mean would we be asking the question if a woman had helped? It just being a drive instructor is um a male-dominated industry. Um so it is going to likely be a man that's going to help just because there are more male driving instructors than there are female.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

If I look at the people who've championed me in the last few years, it's definitely been women, but then I work in a very female-dominated industry, so from my point of view, it it it's kind of like, you know, the girls helping the girls. And and oddly enough, today I was talking to a uh a client of mine uh about uh retraining and becoming a celebrant, and she is a celebrant, and um she couldn't have been more helpful and more supportive and more excited for me, even though in theory I'm gonna be treading on her toes in a way, because we know it's probably quite a flooded market. Um there's only so many celebrants that you need. Um but I I just felt really uh empowered and and uh really quite um lucky to have a a a woman like her um uh helping me along. And I I didn't feel in any way that um you know, i even if it had been a a man, I suppose it would have made no difference. I I just think that it's that the at the moment the girls the girls are really helping each other and um I think that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_07 11:52

I I think on the second question, when we think about the home dynamic, uh where it was suggested that maybe thank you and appreciating is making it a little bit of an easier journey for men.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

But I supp I mean she's got a point. We should men should be sharing the load more.

SPEAKER_07 12:06

But uh um Well, you lent into this quite heavily. I'm okay that men feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

I think I did lean into that, and and I do think that's right. Um but I think I also qualified it by sort of saying that really it depends who's got who's out of the house more, who's got the heavier workload outside the home going on. Um, you know, how you divide those chores, if you're both at home or the husband's at home, then yeah, he should take up more of the I think that's an age thing as well, though.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

I think that, you know, my my husband's age group, um, it was in always sort of fifties, sixties, I think that's more of a an age group that expects the f woman to be the one who leads the the domestic situation. Whereas now, um, you know, my family, the my the younger people in my family, they all have quite an equal um home life when it comes to domestic domesticity. Um because they all they all work. Um none of them have got children yet, they all work, so actually they they pretty much share the workload domestically uh between them, um which is how it should be. So I think it's that's moved on too. Um but I think in you know, especially my my marriage, um I'm in my fifties, and I I still feel I should do most of the domestic um duties, and I think my husband's quite happy for me to do them. Um but that's just the way we are, and I think we can't change that now. We're we're sort of too too long in the tooth. But I think that uh m modern woman's kind of got modern man um, you know, much more uh set up for you know mucking in and getting on with it.

Iqbal's Appreciation of his Sister, Partner & Mum!

SPEAKER_07 13:35

And and it's interesting the special guest we had, Maggie Chen, she since wrote afterwards and said, obviously Michaela being Gen Z, they're switching back to a more traditional view. So it's almost we've done full circle between the generations. So interesting reflection there. If you're listening at home, we do like to get your feedback on our material on the episode. So do let us know. Join our Facebook group page as well, Sussex and Surrey Soapbox. Come and join the discussion. Uh sorry, can I just jump in?

SPEAKER_05 14:03

Uh obviously I wasn't here for the International Women's Day, but I would just like to take a moment. My mum, Tess Neem, she's put up with me for 42 years. If it wasn't for her, you know, 15 years on heroin, 10 years in prison, everything that I put her through. And uh she's he said it best. He goes, She must be a very patient woman, and she is. Also, my sister, um Samina, she is a real international woman. She just done the Tokyo Marathon, I believe last week. She done Sydney a few months back. She just climbed Kilimanjaro, I think the month before that. She's on the cover of Woman's Running Magazine, three-page spread in there, invited to speak. You know, she, if you actually look at my sister, she's uh What's her sister's name? Semina Khan. Uh she's just yeah, she's at another level. And then obviously, the most important person, Holly, mother of my children, the one who's put up with me for all these years and uh done most of the domestic work at home. So I thought I would just say uh thank you to them. And uh, yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_07 15:10

What a lovely touch, Igbel. No, I'm sorry, I just congratulations to your mum and Holly, though. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

If he's picked them all up.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Thank you very much. Have a great Mother's Day.